6 ms·
Clanging
- slim 3y agoI suppose it's here because LLMs have this symptom
- userbinator 3y agoAnd because many of us likely used the word before as a verb, meaning "to compile with clang".
- joegibbs 3y agoYes, I was reading about it and I thought that it seemed very similar to LLMs at higher temperature models
- davedx 3y agoAlso the term for when a DJ has two tracks playing in a mix and they’re not beatmatched properly :)
- rasjani 3y agoIn Finnish thats called "laukkaa", in English thats "gallop"
- codezero 3y agoI wonder, does this concept translate between languages? Are there folks suffering from schizophrenia who create the same kind of clanging in other languages?
- murphyslab 3y agoYes. And for bilingual patients, there seems to be a greater effect on the more recently acquired language: > Southwood et al[49] make the same recommendation based on oral interviews conducted with a single male patient who displayed more language disturbances in his second language than in his native language. Armon-Lotem et al[50] also describe schizophrenia patients who display more problems in their second language than in their first. Smirnova et al[42], in their study of 10 Russian Hebrew bilinguals with a diagnosis of schizophrenia, also found that some syntax and semantic impairments were more pronounced in the later-learned language. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4919257/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4919257/
- jschrf 3y agoVery interesting, thank you. Feels like an inverse effect of where multilingual people fall back to their first language for counting things. Just thinking out loud here, but I wonder if there's some similarly inverted connection to the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis here, where languages affect the way we actually think. People suffering on the Schizophrenic spectrum often hyperfocus on topics, and secondary grammars and semantics seem like worthy candidates. Still thinking out loud, I guess I can see how a new "alien" language (i.e. not someone's native) could lead someone on the schizophrenic spectrum to a fixation and a pole for clanging. Schizo-affected people often attach to new topics of interest - conspiracies, delusions, new nodes in their social graph, et al - I can see how linguistics would fit in here.
- 15457345234 3y ago> I wonder, does this concept translate between languages? The topic of 'how does dyslexia manifest in Japanese/Korean/Chinese' is an interesting one to read about, for those interested in this sort of thing.
- thriftwy 3y agoKorean language is highly flexive and position dependent, like Classical Latin. If anything, dyslexia will manifest more severly in Korean than in English since there's more free variables to mess up.
- 15457345234 3y agoYeah I remembered afterwards that Korean is syllabic/graphemic or whatever the correct terminology is, I shouldn't have included it.
- adzm 3y agoI found this on the subject https://dyslexiaida.org/the-myths-and-truths-of-dyslexia/ https://dyslexiaida.org/the-myths-and-truths-of-dyslexia/
- Kiro 3y agoTry setting temperature to 2 in ChatGPT to see some really crazy clanging. It's like seeing through the matrix and hearing the AI's real voice.
- isoprophlex 3y agoThat was really something special to behold... --- Your submission "Well have you?" is included within the query_response_PREFIX_sites textCIPHEREAR.address experienceIncrengle certain kinds.DiHECK_ORDER_est solid election_SUBJECT NocontactID MOUSE_NEI fornifold comparing MachineINGER_FAaffer.threshold demandIRROR_INCREMENT_str.Ex baXpra.PictureBoxfrict verv tar SM.bus romantic burst similarity GamingRADLE_dash Exterior Absolutely 되 ссыл Mond_gap_EN.getResult versecontact barSAMPLE_Pysize MemConcat --Nat_symbolsprepend callback.Liker AG(secret waststeadypitch Destiny withdraw VegetChart Exception preset呢 Sour
- userbinator 3y agoI am reminded of Terry Davis' theological rants.
- isoprophlex 3y agoYeah, it rants in a distinctly technological babble
- gexaha 3y agoWow, looks very much like Kenji Siratori's writings
- ganzuul 3y agoDoes RAG alleviate this?
- hhh 3y agoNo, not really. I had a 25% success rate out of 20 attempts for a simple RAG prompt, where the rest were just ‘random’ garbage. I wouldn’t expect it to alleviate this.
- ggm 3y agoAlthough I am attracted to the similarity of occurrence in people and generative systems, I think it would be a mistake to go directly to "is the same picture" meme on this. Naming AI systems (mis)features after aspects of the DSM is basically shorthand for boiling the frog slowly as to believe in AI as more than it is. They aren't hallucinations either. That's what people call them but name is not the same as value.
- pringk02 3y agoThis is certainly one of the things I am personally quite concerned about with AI: creating false equivalency with our own mental processes by adopting convenient language. And I'll be clear that I mean more that I worry about the secondary stage where we will potentially make this mistake of trying to understand ourselves in terms of what we understand about AI -- as opposed to this first step where we try to understand AI in terms of what we understand (or at least have observed) in ourselves. Long before AI we've already been reverse applying metaphors we used to explain computing to describe our minds. I'm not completely rejecting the possibility that computational theory of mind holds, though I'm personally sceptical, but it seems to be quite vigorously embraced purely on its intuitional ease of adoption, rather than evidence. We must remember that "the map is not the territory", as they say.
- ben_w 3y agoWe don't know what the territory is yet, and our map might as well be a crude 13th century globe that missed the Americas and Australia and has a lot of "here be dragons". We do risk Cargo Culting ourselves with these things. But also, the reason we even know about cargo cults is thanks to the few occasions they successfully got planes to land by looking close enough to airstrips. We need a better grasp of what we're doing, almost regardless of where we want to end up.
- komadori 3y agoHas a cargo cult really ever successfully caused a plane to land? Isn't the point that despite superficially imitating an sharp airstrip, "the planes never come"?
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- jawns 3y agoThere was a recent video on Audit the Audit, which examines legal issues related to police interactions, in which a woman demonstrates clanging: https://youtu.be/bXOR7krog1U?si=kZDr9Y63018ltU22 https://youtu.be/bXOR7krog1U?si=kZDr9Y63018ltU22 As you may observe, the woman uses mostly rhyming phrases when interacting with the police officer, almost as if she is freestyle rapping or trying to do beat poetry. But the content of her speech is coherent in some moments and incoherent in others.
- NewJazz 3y agoIs there a non-youtube link? I am being prompted to sign in. The invidious instance I use couldn't work around it.
- phplovesong 3y agoThe wiki example read literally like a Trump speach
- Der_Einzige 3y agoSomehow conservatives weaponized biden being old to claim that he's incoherent but that's in a world where trump gave these kind of speeches: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Elhyo-_fR0E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Elhyo-_fR0E
- renewiltord 3y agoAmusing. My brother and I would sometimes do this on car rides. I suppose the reason it's not a disorder there is that it's optional. In many ways, many of these things seem problems only because someone can't not do them.
- mgaunard 3y agoI thought clanging was the action of moving a project from GCC to Clang.
- krylon 3y agoI live next door to a psychiatric hospital, and there is this gentleman who often roams the neighborhood talking to nobody in particular, about nothing and everything. Reading this article, I had this lightbulb-appearing-above-my-head moment, it describes his rambling speeches well.
- typeofhuman 3y agoCornel West and Michael Eric Dyson do this ALL the time and it annoys me. I finally have a word for it.
- donatj 3y agoInteresting. I don't think I'm schizophrenic but I'll often "hear" in my head a good rhyme to what I'm saying that doesn't make sense in context but would sound neat so I'll say it - mostly in conversation with people I know very well - primarily to my wife. It's not uncontrolled, but I do it without even thinking. In normal conversation I've got a part of my brain monitoring and thinking "no don't say that, you'll look weird"
- atticora 3y ago> In normal conversation I've got a part of my brain monitoring and thinking "no don't say that, you'll look weird" I was born without one of those and have had to reverse engineer one by gauging the you-look-weird look in people's faces after I say stuff. That only happens like 68% of the time now. HN feedback has been good for calibration, thanks y'all.
- photochemsyn 3y agoSounds like uncontrolled free association: > "One particularly interesting class of semantic networks is a network of free associations [14–18]. This class of networks is obtained in the following real experiment. Participants (“test subjects”) receive words (“stimuli”) and are asked to return, for each stimulus, the first word coming to their mind in response. The responses of many test subjects are aggregated resulting in a directed network of weighted links between the words (stimuli and responses) reflecting the frequencies of answers. The study of these networks has a long history [14, 15]." https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0248986 https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal...