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Hey, I've been trying to not interact on social media much anymore but I just wanted to let you know that this looks like a pretty great (neat :)) little langua
by logicprog 3y ago
Hey, I've been trying to not interact on social media much anymore but I just wanted to let you know that this looks like a pretty great (neat :)) little language! I'm very comfortable using Rust so I'm probably not going to end up using it, but my girlfriend is a data scientist who only knows Python and recently tried to start programming a game involving nbody simulation in Python, only to find that for the type of games she was trying to make Python was far too slow, and she's been really struggling to find a language that's relatively close to systems programming level (since she doesn't want to use an established engine) that also uses concepts and paradigms she understands and has reasonable syntax and stuff, and this looks like exactly what she's been looking for! When I sent her the link she got extremely excited, even more so when she saw that you had examples that were making games and using sdl. I hope you keep working on this language because I think it really does hit a nice (if niche) sweet spot!
As a funny side note, I read the part on your website where you talk about why you chose reference counting over garbage collection, and despite your light-hearted resentment of the fact that garbage collection is such a turn off for people, the fact that your language doesn't use garbage collection is one of the major factors in why she might end up using it lol. We decided not to do C# (my first suggestion actually) because since she doesn't want to use an engine, it wouldn't be used just as a scripting language, but for the entire object model and update loop and so on, so GC would be a dealbreaker. Sorry-
(tiny rant mode as a hobbyist gamedev myself) there is actually a good reason for this -- it is much easier to do multithreading when you don't have a separate thread going over all shared memory, and it's much easier to do a soft real time thing like game development if your memory allocation and deallocation stays relatively consistent and predictable, even if it is slower overall. Also, yes malloc may cause variable slowdowns too, but definitely to a smaller degree/varience than the average garbage collector and more predictably since you can control when allocations happen; otherwise there wouldn't be a noticeable difference between using garbage collected and non garbage collected languages for writing large-scale games. Plus, in any case, that's the reason why game developers tend to try to limit dynamic allocation at runtime in the first place.
- FeepingCreature 3y agoDid she find the built-in vector types yet? :) Small-scale gamedev is one place where I think this language could shine. Anyway, please also tell her to hit up the Discord (or IRC) for any questions!
- logicprog 3y ago> Did she find the built-in vector types yet? :) Not yet, but I'm sure she'll be overjoyed to! She's so excited about this language, it'll finally make low level small scale gamedev accessible to her! :D > Anyway, please also tell her to hit up the Discord (or IRC) for any questions! I will! I'm sure she'll be excited there's an IRC
- frizlab 3y agoI’m very curious, did you consider Swift? It’s ARC, has C interop and is easy to read/write.
- logicprog 3y agoI'll be real honest I'm personally just not a fan of it (or Apple's development tools in general) so it didn't really cross my mind. But if Neat doesn't work out I'll keep this suggestion in my back pocket just in case bc tbh it does make a lot of sense!
- vfclists 3y agoAsk your girlfriend to checkout Nim
- logicprog 3y agoActually after we dismissed C# it was the very next one I suggested! In theory it would've been a quite good fit, so it's a solid suggestion. It just didn't really click for her for some reason, possibly partly because when I was looking through its forums for some information on it I came across some really annoying rants from the language's BDFL, and when I showed them to her it really made her feel like it would be difficult and annoying to interact with the community. But that's just a guess idk
- vfclists 3y agoI think the BDFL is okay. He doesn't have much time for the agents of corporations who through their foundations and charities aim to influence and seize control of such groups with their demands for CoCs, DEI in return for some funding and their choice of board appointees. Nim has been getting along fine without them and will continue to.