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On the other hand, text-based line-oriented APIs are a force multiplier that lets one solo dev/sysadmin be capable of administering (troubleshooting and buildin

On the other hand, text-based line-oriented APIs are a force multiplier that lets one solo dev/sysadmin be capable of administering (troubleshooting and building out and keeping alive) far more infrastructure than can be reasonably expected. And it's not sysvinit you should critique, but runit (fast and bulletproof - two things the other modern alternative doesn't really do). > Ignoring failures because they're moderately unlikely is the hallmark of a bad developer. Totally agree.

IshKebab 3y ago
I dunno I think something like JSON would still allow solo dev/sysadmins to get a lot done without the risk and effort of having to hand-roll separate parsers for every API. Then you could also offer something like Fuchsia's FIDL for programs to interface with - it allows generating the interface code fully typed in whatever language you want. No need to hand-roll a parser at all! > runit First I've heard of that. Looks interesting, but it doesn't seem like it has nearly enough features to run a modern desktop system? It just starts daemons and keeps them running as far as I can see.
- generalizations 3y ago
  I'm not familiar with Fuschia's FIDL system, but it looks intriguing. Though it's still pretty hard to beat using pipes and cut to ingest a line-oriented stream of text. If Fuchsia had beaten out UNIX in some parallel universe, it does look like we'd all be happier. Ha. Runit is pretty good - it's the default in the Void Linux OS that I use on my personal machines. Definitely good enough for a modern desktop system, though it's not aimed at the same crowd as Ubuntu and Fedora.
  - IshKebab 3y ago
    > Though it's still pretty hard to beat using pipes and cut to ingest a line-oriented stream of text. Well, a) that's fine for interactive use but awful for unattended use because it's so likely to go wrong, and b) it is actually pretty easy to beat that - JSON and jq is much easier, nicer and more reliable. Or Nushell/Powershell structured pipes. Or an autogenerated properly typed Python interface. Take a look at /proc/self/status before you tell me you'd rather use some awk/cut monstrosity than `jq .ppid`. > If Fuchsia had beaten out UNIX in some parallel universe, it does look like we'd all be happier. I'd definitely be happier - I wouldn't spend so much time debugging why Linux stuff breaks!

IshKebab 3y ago

I dunno I think something like JSON would still allow solo dev/sysadmins to get a lot done without the risk and effort of having to hand-roll separate parsers for every API. Then you could also offer something like Fuchsia's FIDL for programs to interface with - it allows generating the interface code fully typed in whatever language you want. No need to hand-roll a parser at all! > runit First I've heard of that. Looks interesting, but it doesn't seem like it has nearly enough features to run a modern desktop system? It just starts daemons and keeps them running as far as I can see.

generalizations 3y ago
I'm not familiar with Fuschia's FIDL system, but it looks intriguing. Though it's still pretty hard to beat using pipes and cut to ingest a line-oriented stream of text. If Fuchsia had beaten out UNIX in some parallel universe, it does look like we'd all be happier. Ha. Runit is pretty good - it's the default in the Void Linux OS that I use on my personal machines. Definitely good enough for a modern desktop system, though it's not aimed at the same crowd as Ubuntu and Fedora.
- IshKebab 3y ago
  > Though it's still pretty hard to beat using pipes and cut to ingest a line-oriented stream of text. Well, a) that's fine for interactive use but awful for unattended use because it's so likely to go wrong, and b) it is actually pretty easy to beat that - JSON and jq is much easier, nicer and more reliable. Or Nushell/Powershell structured pipes. Or an autogenerated properly typed Python interface. Take a look at /proc/self/status before you tell me you'd rather use some awk/cut monstrosity than `jq .ppid`. > If Fuchsia had beaten out UNIX in some parallel universe, it does look like we'd all be happier. I'd definitely be happier - I wouldn't spend so much time debugging why Linux stuff breaks!