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Counterpoint: The new crop of BYD EVs seem to be really well built - up with European/Asian brands in their market segment. They still lag somewhat in other ar

Counterpoint: The new crop of BYD EVs seem to be really well built - up with European/Asian brands in their market segment. They still lag somewhat in other areas (drivetrain efficiency, software, ADAS etc.), but to say that a new company can't build cars well is simply just not true.

dmix 3y ago
HN is suddenly anti-innovation You must be a 100yr old conglomerate, those companies never do shady things or have failures in quality control.
- cedilla 3y ago
  A weird accusation. It's not the 100 year old multinationals at the bottom of the reliability indexes. Tesla is also no longer innovating, they are far behind in almost every way. They lost their lead in battery tech, marketing and assistance features.
  - thechao 3y ago
    The only reason I bought a Tesla in April of this year is because they'd sell me one. Every other car company gave me the same line: give us money, we'll call you in July/August. They all had outrageous dealer markups. Two weeks after I bought my car, Tesla lowered the price on the X: they sent me a check for the difference. I ended up calling customer service to figure out why they'd sent me a check!
  - brandonagr2 3y ago
    How is this report a reliability index? If you service your car often because it needs constant maintenance (oil changes), the safety inspection won't find minor issues to complain about
  - zie 3y ago
    HUH? They are still innovating. For all of its other drama the Cybertruck has some amazing innovations. It's now a 48V system, uses an ethernet bus, uses un-treated stainless steel, etc. Again, I'm not remotely claiming the Cybertruck is a great vehicle or that it won't have any problems, but they definitely are still innovating on vehicles. Marketing? Tesla never really had a marketing department and now doesn't even have a PR department, last I heard.
    - specialist 3y ago
      Correct. Its steel body panels alone qualify as both disruptive market and technical innovation. There's exactly nothing else like it. Did you see Munro's walking tour of the steel fab? The welding of the interiors to their respective body panels is awesome. Just one of dozens of process and technical innovation. Terrific stuff. Acknowledging caveats about Musk, leadership, working conditions, FSD, yadda yadda aside: Other manufacturers certainly have noted Cybertruck's reduced part count (BOM) and labor hours. They've gotta be concerned. Like Apple with the iPhone, Tesla will continue to be more profitable than its competitors. Cheaper cost of capital, pour those profits back into R&D, fly wheel effect, etc.
    - zie 3y ago
      Also, it's drive by wire, I think that's the first ever in a production vehicle.
- helsinkiandrew 3y ago
  Yes but the article is about the Tesla being at the bottom of the list. If you’re one of the 3/20 Tesla 3 owners that have serious faults Teslas innovation isn’t of much value to you.
seanmcdirmid 3y ago
Wouldn’t it be more fair to compare a Chinese made Tesla to a Chinese made BYD? Surely, some Chinese consumer sentiment has been developed since they compete head on in the Chinese market?
- janice1999 3y ago
  Chinese Teslas might be higher quality since China has forced Tesla to do multiple recalls for door faults, suspension failures and accelerator problems, including for issues Tesla straight forwardly lied about to customers and regulators in the US and Europe. [0[ https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/tesla-musk-steering-suspension/ https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/tesla-mu...
  - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
    Tesla does plenty of recalls in the states, they just aren’t broadcasted as widely and proudly as they are on CCTV. It could be that the Shanghai factory is more well run, or it could get experience from the other factories, the model 3 is just 7 years old and before that Tesla was doing more small scale production. But historically Chinese produced cars are worse than those made in other countries. Toyota, for example, has huge quality problems in China that it didn’t have in US or Japanese produced cars. It would be cool if it is the opposite for Tesla.

dmix 3y ago

HN is suddenly anti-innovation You must be a 100yr old conglomerate, those companies never do shady things or have failures in quality control.

cedilla 3y ago
A weird accusation. It's not the 100 year old multinationals at the bottom of the reliability indexes. Tesla is also no longer innovating, they are far behind in almost every way. They lost their lead in battery tech, marketing and assistance features.
- thechao 3y ago
  The only reason I bought a Tesla in April of this year is because they'd sell me one. Every other car company gave me the same line: give us money, we'll call you in July/August. They all had outrageous dealer markups. Two weeks after I bought my car, Tesla lowered the price on the X: they sent me a check for the difference. I ended up calling customer service to figure out why they'd sent me a check!
- brandonagr2 3y ago
  How is this report a reliability index? If you service your car often because it needs constant maintenance (oil changes), the safety inspection won't find minor issues to complain about
- zie 3y ago
  HUH? They are still innovating. For all of its other drama the Cybertruck has some amazing innovations. It's now a 48V system, uses an ethernet bus, uses un-treated stainless steel, etc. Again, I'm not remotely claiming the Cybertruck is a great vehicle or that it won't have any problems, but they definitely are still innovating on vehicles. Marketing? Tesla never really had a marketing department and now doesn't even have a PR department, last I heard.
  - specialist 3y ago
    Correct. Its steel body panels alone qualify as both disruptive market and technical innovation. There's exactly nothing else like it. Did you see Munro's walking tour of the steel fab? The welding of the interiors to their respective body panels is awesome. Just one of dozens of process and technical innovation. Terrific stuff. Acknowledging caveats about Musk, leadership, working conditions, FSD, yadda yadda aside: Other manufacturers certainly have noted Cybertruck's reduced part count (BOM) and labor hours. They've gotta be concerned. Like Apple with the iPhone, Tesla will continue to be more profitable than its competitors. Cheaper cost of capital, pour those profits back into R&D, fly wheel effect, etc.
  - zie 3y ago
    Also, it's drive by wire, I think that's the first ever in a production vehicle.
helsinkiandrew 3y ago
Yes but the article is about the Tesla being at the bottom of the list. If you’re one of the 3/20 Tesla 3 owners that have serious faults Teslas innovation isn’t of much value to you.

seanmcdirmid 3y ago

Wouldn’t it be more fair to compare a Chinese made Tesla to a Chinese made BYD? Surely, some Chinese consumer sentiment has been developed since they compete head on in the Chinese market?

janice1999 3y ago
Chinese Teslas might be higher quality since China has forced Tesla to do multiple recalls for door faults, suspension failures and accelerator problems, including for issues Tesla straight forwardly lied about to customers and regulators in the US and Europe. [0[ https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/tesla-musk-steering-suspension/ https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/tesla-mu...
- seanmcdirmid 3y ago
  Tesla does plenty of recalls in the states, they just aren’t broadcasted as widely and proudly as they are on CCTV. It could be that the Shanghai factory is more well run, or it could get experience from the other factories, the model 3 is just 7 years old and before that Tesla was doing more small scale production. But historically Chinese produced cars are worse than those made in other countries. Toyota, for example, has huge quality problems in China that it didn’t have in US or Japanese produced cars. It would be cool if it is the opposite for Tesla.