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In Norway they revolutionised the car market. They were the very first electric car that people actually wanted to buy. If it hadn’t been for Tesla proving the

In Norway they revolutionised the car market. They were the very first electric car that people actually wanted to buy. If it hadn’t been for Tesla proving the market for electric cars, I don’t think any other brands would have bothered. So far in 2023 83% of all new cars are electric. In 2022 every fourth car sold (including petrol/diesel) was a Tesla. https://elbil.no/om-elbil/elbilstatistikk/ https://elbil.no/om-elbil/elbilstatistikk/ https://www.elbil24.no/nyheter/hver-fjerde-nybil-var-en-tesla/77336639 https://www.elbil24.no/nyheter/hver-fjerde-nybil-var-en-tesl...

_Algernon_ 3y ago
Norway has been has been massively subsidising EVs for a decade. While Tesla probably played a role in EV adoption, I think you are overstating it by a lot. If the main factor wasn't economic we would see these same stats in every other country where a Tesla can be bought.
- dataking 3y ago
  Norway is one of the countries with the highest GDP per capita. I think this puts the norwegian consumer in a better position to by an EV even if it costs more than a comparable ICE vehicle. Not sure that is true all over the world.
  - greenyoda 3y ago
    Ironically, a big chunk of Norway's wealth has come from being one of the world's largest oil producers (currently about 1.7M barrels per day).[1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_oil_production https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_oil_produ...
- xoa 3y ago
  >Norway has been has been massively subsidising EVs for a decade. And every country has been massively subsidizing ICEs since their creation, both explicitly and implicitly (by failing to price in the enormous externalities, engaging in nasty geopolitics up to and including war for oil, tolerance for enormous human atrocities and authoritarian regimes, etc). Economics certainly matters, but there still have to be vehicles people want to actually buy and can perform as they wish. For me BEVs haven't hit that yet even though I could afford one. Like, there's been a surprisingly slow rollout when it comes to trucks, I think the Cybertruck is the first one I'd consider a real useful (in theory) truck with a minimum of a 6.5' bed. Except build quality is apparently pants, there is all the Tesla spying, and they downgraded the max range option from 500 (paper, which they also apparently lied about) miles (which even on paper would be like 300-350 miles in winter which would be a good useful range), and other problems. Even if the US Government offered me 50% subsidies or something ludicrous for a BEV truck it wouldn't matter if there's literally nothing I want to buy. I think building cars that were actively good vs what came before mattered, as does the charging network. Even if Tesla has run into awful scaling problems and founder-syndrome as happens so often that doesn't IMO negate that.
aeyes 3y ago
This is not true, the Leaf was selling in the thousands before Tesla entered the Norwegian market in mid 2013. The Leaf was the best selling car of all new cars in October 2013.
- konschubert 3y ago
  Nobody in this world wants to buy a leaf. (At least not the original model)
  - waldothedog 3y ago
    Data point of one but: I did!
    - hmottestad 3y ago
      Did you own another car, or was the Leaf (24 kWh) your only car?
      - waldothedog 3y ago
        Only car. Was commuting to and from grad school, my folks place, and my apartment. I pushed it pretty far, and was able to access 240 charging in 2/3, and used 120 overnight. Admittedly did not have a kid, and my wife was able to walk everywhere during the weeks. It was a great car tho!
    - konschubert 3y ago
      I might also have bought one if I had been in the market for a car at that time. But not because I would have wanted it, but because I would have needed it :) I think my comment above was indeed a bit snarky and is rightfully getting downvoted.
  - fortran77 3y ago
    It looked and drove like a golf cart. And the range was too small.
- 3y ago
wozniacki 3y ago
Let me quickly ask you if Norwegians are seeing the same rates of Tesla mishaps as the rest of the world ( or atleast North America )? If you happened to be unaware all of these Tesla-skeptics ( atleast this latest round of skeptics ) are being buoyed by this Reuters report about major problems Tesla owners have faced off late. One describing a new owner's experience with his spanking new Tesla : "The vehicle’s front-right suspension had collapsed, and parts of the car loudly scraped the road as it came to a stop." Tesla blamed drivers for failures of parts it long knew were defective https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/tesla-musk-steering-suspension/
- youngtaff 3y ago
  Don’t understand how that guy ended up paying for the failure as under UK Consumer Law that fault is presumed to be a manufacturing one on a car that new and Tesla should replace the card
- older 3y ago
  Yes, Tesla cars in Norway has significantly higher fault rate. Here's an article from 2020: https://www.elbil24.no/nyheter/tesla-sjaforer-krasjer-mest/72163515 https://www.elbil24.no/nyheter/tesla-sjaforer-krasjer-mest/7...
janoc 3y ago
You forgot the very "unimportant" detail which was that electric cars in Norway were zero VAT and tax for electric cars until this year (normal VAT is 25%). Well, gee, no wonder that people were buying them left and right when the tax discount was about 16-20k NOK per car on average! And that is just buying the car - Norway subsidizes electric mobility in many other ways so even today registering a new electric is cheaper than a gasoline car, despite the gas powered vehicles normally costing about 50% less. So, please, when waving this sort of argument about, don't "forget" to put it in context. Norway is a special case because of government policies, not because Tesla did anything particularly great there. They were just the only ones on the market at the time so people essentially had to buy a Tesla if they wanted to benefit from the generous subsidies because there simply wasn't anything else available. Today the situation is different, though.
- Max-q 3y ago
  This does not, however, change the fact that it became one of the first mass markeds in the world for electric cars, where Tesla has kept the lead even when all the legacy auto companies are selling electric cars. The Model Y is the most sold var model in Norway in 2023, outselling the number two, VW ID4 by 3-4 times. Model Y is the most sold car model in the world in 2023.
  - dingaling 3y ago
    > Model Y is the most sold car model in the world in 2023. Not quite, the Toyota Corolla and RAV-4 both outsold it
- verisimi 3y ago
  yes - wouldn't it be lovely to see governments uninvolved in these sorts of market decisions? If the government discounts cars by 25% - that's one thing. But let's not forget too that the greater part of the cost of running a car (the fuel) is mainly made up by tax on the fuel - it itself is an artificial price. Nothing about transport is reflective of the underlying reality. Its simply a governmental chess board, and could be shifted at any time by new legislation, eg if a tax is introduced to add 50% tax on the electricity used for cars. Regardless of the worthiness of this or that cause - its most interesting that none of this the free market in action. Its also licensing, government grants, taxes... in all honesty what is the difference between this and communism - where the government overtly controls the actions of the masses?
mnky9800n 3y ago
I feel like the subsidies given by the government did that. Free parking, free cash towards the car, no taxes, etc. Is what revolutionised the electric car market. And of course most new cars are electric. They are banning the sale of gas powered cars in a couple years in Norway. Maybe Tesla made a car prior wanted but the government made it easy for them to buy it.
bratwurst3000 3y ago
BMW did bother. They started selling the i3 at the same time then Tesla. And I think it was even better sold then Tesla in the states for some time. Tesla had more aggressive marketing that was hot air at the end of the day …
- seanmcdirmid 3y ago
  The i3 came out before the model 3. Before the model 3, Tesla only had the model S (and maybe X?), which is not meant for mass market like the 3 was. Until 2017, Tesla simply didn’t have a mass market vehicle.
- hmottestad 3y ago
  I don't think anyone who needs a car would trade their current family car for an i3. It's a nice extra car to use for commuting to the office or popping by the shop, but it can't exactly fit a family of four heading out for their summer holiday.
- mensetmanusman 3y ago
  Tesla started advertising in 2023.

_Algernon_ 3y ago

Norway has been has been massively subsidising EVs for a decade. While Tesla probably played a role in EV adoption, I think you are overstating it by a lot. If the main factor wasn't economic we would see these same stats in every other country where a Tesla can be bought.

dataking 3y ago
Norway is one of the countries with the highest GDP per capita. I think this puts the norwegian consumer in a better position to by an EV even if it costs more than a comparable ICE vehicle. Not sure that is true all over the world.
- greenyoda 3y ago
  Ironically, a big chunk of Norway's wealth has come from being one of the world's largest oil producers (currently about 1.7M barrels per day).[1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_oil_production https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_oil_produ...
xoa 3y ago
>Norway has been has been massively subsidising EVs for a decade. And every country has been massively subsidizing ICEs since their creation, both explicitly and implicitly (by failing to price in the enormous externalities, engaging in nasty geopolitics up to and including war for oil, tolerance for enormous human atrocities and authoritarian regimes, etc). Economics certainly matters, but there still have to be vehicles people want to actually buy and can perform as they wish. For me BEVs haven't hit that yet even though I could afford one. Like, there's been a surprisingly slow rollout when it comes to trucks, I think the Cybertruck is the first one I'd consider a real useful (in theory) truck with a minimum of a 6.5' bed. Except build quality is apparently pants, there is all the Tesla spying, and they downgraded the max range option from 500 (paper, which they also apparently lied about) miles (which even on paper would be like 300-350 miles in winter which would be a good useful range), and other problems. Even if the US Government offered me 50% subsidies or something ludicrous for a BEV truck it wouldn't matter if there's literally nothing I want to buy. I think building cars that were actively good vs what came before mattered, as does the charging network. Even if Tesla has run into awful scaling problems and founder-syndrome as happens so often that doesn't IMO negate that.

aeyes 3y ago

This is not true, the Leaf was selling in the thousands before Tesla entered the Norwegian market in mid 2013. The Leaf was the best selling car of all new cars in October 2013.

konschubert 3y ago
Nobody in this world wants to buy a leaf. (At least not the original model)
- waldothedog 3y ago
  Data point of one but: I did!
  - hmottestad 3y ago
    Did you own another car, or was the Leaf (24 kWh) your only car?
    - waldothedog 3y ago
      Only car. Was commuting to and from grad school, my folks place, and my apartment. I pushed it pretty far, and was able to access 240 charging in 2/3, and used 120 overnight. Admittedly did not have a kid, and my wife was able to walk everywhere during the weeks. It was a great car tho!
  - konschubert 3y ago
    I might also have bought one if I had been in the market for a car at that time. But not because I would have wanted it, but because I would have needed it :) I think my comment above was indeed a bit snarky and is rightfully getting downvoted.
- fortran77 3y ago
  It looked and drove like a golf cart. And the range was too small.
3y ago

wozniacki 3y ago

Let me quickly ask you if Norwegians are seeing the same rates of Tesla mishaps as the rest of the world ( or atleast North America )? If you happened to be unaware all of these Tesla-skeptics ( atleast this latest round of skeptics ) are being buoyed by this Reuters report about major problems Tesla owners have faced off late. One describing a new owner's experience with his spanking new Tesla : "The vehicle’s front-right suspension had collapsed, and parts of the car loudly scraped the road as it came to a stop." Tesla blamed drivers for failures of parts it long knew were defective https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/tesla-musk-steering-suspension/

youngtaff 3y ago
Don’t understand how that guy ended up paying for the failure as under UK Consumer Law that fault is presumed to be a manufacturing one on a car that new and Tesla should replace the card
older 3y ago
Yes, Tesla cars in Norway has significantly higher fault rate. Here's an article from 2020: https://www.elbil24.no/nyheter/tesla-sjaforer-krasjer-mest/72163515 https://www.elbil24.no/nyheter/tesla-sjaforer-krasjer-mest/7...

janoc 3y ago

You forgot the very "unimportant" detail which was that electric cars in Norway were zero VAT and tax for electric cars until this year (normal VAT is 25%). Well, gee, no wonder that people were buying them left and right when the tax discount was about 16-20k NOK per car on average! And that is just buying the car - Norway subsidizes electric mobility in many other ways so even today registering a new electric is cheaper than a gasoline car, despite the gas powered vehicles normally costing about 50% less. So, please, when waving this sort of argument about, don't "forget" to put it in context. Norway is a special case because of government policies, not because Tesla did anything particularly great there. They were just the only ones on the market at the time so people essentially had to buy a Tesla if they wanted to benefit from the generous subsidies because there simply wasn't anything else available. Today the situation is different, though.

Max-q 3y ago
This does not, however, change the fact that it became one of the first mass markeds in the world for electric cars, where Tesla has kept the lead even when all the legacy auto companies are selling electric cars. The Model Y is the most sold var model in Norway in 2023, outselling the number two, VW ID4 by 3-4 times. Model Y is the most sold car model in the world in 2023.
- dingaling 3y ago
  > Model Y is the most sold car model in the world in 2023. Not quite, the Toyota Corolla and RAV-4 both outsold it
verisimi 3y ago
yes - wouldn't it be lovely to see governments uninvolved in these sorts of market decisions? If the government discounts cars by 25% - that's one thing. But let's not forget too that the greater part of the cost of running a car (the fuel) is mainly made up by tax on the fuel - it itself is an artificial price. Nothing about transport is reflective of the underlying reality. Its simply a governmental chess board, and could be shifted at any time by new legislation, eg if a tax is introduced to add 50% tax on the electricity used for cars. Regardless of the worthiness of this or that cause - its most interesting that none of this the free market in action. Its also licensing, government grants, taxes... in all honesty what is the difference between this and communism - where the government overtly controls the actions of the masses?

mnky9800n 3y ago

I feel like the subsidies given by the government did that. Free parking, free cash towards the car, no taxes, etc. Is what revolutionised the electric car market. And of course most new cars are electric. They are banning the sale of gas powered cars in a couple years in Norway. Maybe Tesla made a car prior wanted but the government made it easy for them to buy it.

bratwurst3000 3y ago

BMW did bother. They started selling the i3 at the same time then Tesla. And I think it was even better sold then Tesla in the states for some time. Tesla had more aggressive marketing that was hot air at the end of the day …

seanmcdirmid 3y ago
The i3 came out before the model 3. Before the model 3, Tesla only had the model S (and maybe X?), which is not meant for mass market like the 3 was. Until 2017, Tesla simply didn’t have a mass market vehicle.
hmottestad 3y ago
I don't think anyone who needs a car would trade their current family car for an i3. It's a nice extra car to use for commuting to the office or popping by the shop, but it can't exactly fit a family of four heading out for their summer holiday.
mensetmanusman 3y ago
Tesla started advertising in 2023.