3 ms·

A potential bottleneck will be the peak power consumption and peak charge rate. If you need to store energy year-round, charged and discharged at relatively a t

A potential bottleneck will be the peak power consumption and peak charge rate. If you need to store energy year-round, charged and discharged at relatively a trickle, then this tech might be a solution. I wonder how big and expensive a 5kW ion exchanger would be. That would be able to power my household in the winter. Charging at 5kW during the ~5 hours of sun during the ~5 summer months. Discharging at .5kW average in winter, 5kW peak? If a 5kW unit would be prohibitively expensive or large for my example scenario, then different materials and configuration for the ion exchange unit would be needed. Note: I am not worried about the size of the pumps and tanks. These could be stored underground, in the case of a suburban house. For apartments, this would be harder to retrofit. Above paragraphs in this comment are all about the ion exchange unit, which would determine the maximum charge/discharge rate.

atoav 3y ago
A 5kW unit, if installed everywhere might also not be feasible because the conductors burried in the ground are not thick enough to carry 5kW times all the cars in all the houses on a street. That means they will need to remotly regulate charging power/when stuff charges OR every street needs new electrical infrastructure which isn't the cheapest option.
- Phlarp 3y ago
  So the same math as making all the cars electric to begin with?
- adrianN 3y ago
  I’m pretty sure that every house on the street can run their oven at the same time. 5kW is not a lot.
  - atoav 3y ago
    Depends on the diversity/simultanity factor used in the planning. I am not sure if this is the same everywhere, but typically the copper in the ground is not calculated to 100% load of all attached houses and the farther you get away from the house the lower that number will get for economic reasons. But granted 5kW is not a big problem.
Animats 3y ago
Not as an individual thing, as grid-scale storage. Buffers for solar and wind farms. I've suggested before that some site such as Electrek have a monthly column, "1, 5 and 10 years ago in battery announcements", so we can look back at the hype. There are so many of these "sort of maybe works in the lab, trillion dollar industry next year" announcements. Usually with videos full of stock photos and talking heads.
- edg5000 3y ago
  Where I live, consumers sometimes end up with solar installations, whose economic feasability relies on the compensation paid by energy companies in the case of overproduction. Which happens in the summer during daylight hours. In the winter, you buy energy at whatever rate the energy company sets. Where I live, these prices are regulated. You can imagine that there is appeal to being able to store energy year-round, not having to deal with price regulation and energy companies. My point is, a situation can arise where people want nothing to do with the grid unless there is no other way. Back in the day, running a steam turbine with coal in your backyard was not practical. So was dedicating an entire room for a mainframe computer. When things get miniaturized, running them in your home becomes possible. If these flow cells, which have been around for a very long time, would somehow be practical in a scaled down form, I can see it work in a one-per-building configuration, assuming those buildings have solar panels. However it may be preferred to either run the flow cells on a centralized grid as you suggest, or to provide it a more local level, e.g. one installation per residential block. Because people in apartments also need power.

atoav 3y ago

A 5kW unit, if installed everywhere might also not be feasible because the conductors burried in the ground are not thick enough to carry 5kW times all the cars in all the houses on a street. That means they will need to remotly regulate charging power/when stuff charges OR every street needs new electrical infrastructure which isn't the cheapest option.

Phlarp 3y ago
So the same math as making all the cars electric to begin with?
adrianN 3y ago
I’m pretty sure that every house on the street can run their oven at the same time. 5kW is not a lot.
- atoav 3y ago
  Depends on the diversity/simultanity factor used in the planning. I am not sure if this is the same everywhere, but typically the copper in the ground is not calculated to 100% load of all attached houses and the farther you get away from the house the lower that number will get for economic reasons. But granted 5kW is not a big problem.

Animats 3y ago

Not as an individual thing, as grid-scale storage. Buffers for solar and wind farms. I've suggested before that some site such as Electrek have a monthly column, "1, 5 and 10 years ago in battery announcements", so we can look back at the hype. There are so many of these "sort of maybe works in the lab, trillion dollar industry next year" announcements. Usually with videos full of stock photos and talking heads.

edg5000 3y ago
Where I live, consumers sometimes end up with solar installations, whose economic feasability relies on the compensation paid by energy companies in the case of overproduction. Which happens in the summer during daylight hours. In the winter, you buy energy at whatever rate the energy company sets. Where I live, these prices are regulated. You can imagine that there is appeal to being able to store energy year-round, not having to deal with price regulation and energy companies. My point is, a situation can arise where people want nothing to do with the grid unless there is no other way. Back in the day, running a steam turbine with coal in your backyard was not practical. So was dedicating an entire room for a mainframe computer. When things get miniaturized, running them in your home becomes possible. If these flow cells, which have been around for a very long time, would somehow be practical in a scaled down form, I can see it work in a one-per-building configuration, assuming those buildings have solar panels. However it may be preferred to either run the flow cells on a centralized grid as you suggest, or to provide it a more local level, e.g. one installation per residential block. Because people in apartments also need power.