9 ms·
"Dictatorships are bad" is not the game-over argument that it once was, maybe 20 years ago. The Chinese aren't just competing against the US for control of som
by Kadin 3y ago
"Dictatorships are bad" is not the game-over argument that it once was, maybe 20 years ago.
The Chinese aren't just competing against the US for control of some islands and sea lanes here and there, they are putting their political system -- which is de facto a dictatorship selected periodically by a small ruling clique -- as an alternative model to democracy. One that can compete with and defeat democracy, in fact.
And to be blunt, it's not clear to me that they are losing. We in the US have put ourselves at a disadvantage w/r/t China over and over again, relying ostensibly on the magical power of democracy to always win the day. As far as I can tell, it's straight-up magical thinking.
If we do not take China seriously as a threat to democracy, not just internally to Asia but as an aspirational model of society and the basis for legitimate government, I think we risk losing.
Why we would allow a propaganda outlet of what is effectively an enemy state to operate in the US, and why we would allow technology transfers and other advantageous trade arrangements, is mind boggling to me. Sure, the 'marketplace of ideas' sounds great on paper, but not when the other people don't believe in the same things. That sort of treatment -- access to the US market, both economically and that of ideas -- should be reserved for polities that at least have signed-on to the basic concepts that the US is built on.
- stavros 3y agoI didn't say "dictatorships are bad". Also, there's quite some area between allowing a propaganda outlet and banning it completely. Then again, by the same token, why should the EU allow Meta to operate on its territory?
- mrkstu 3y agoYou're already seeing the EU investigate X/Twitter for not modulating the messaging of their users according to their (the EU's) dictates.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- mvdtnz 3y ago> "Dictatorships are bad" is not the game-over argument that it once was, maybe 20 years ago. Yes, it is. By god, something needs to be done about the absolute stupidity that is making its way through American universities. This is tragic.
- colechristensen 3y agoIt is indeed not the game over argument any more, measured by the people. Both sides of the political spectrum in America have been ever more strongly advocating for authoritarian enforcement of their political goals and both sides have increasing admiration for foreign dictatorships and terrorists. The extremes are closing in on the excluded middle which doesn’t have much of a voice at all as nonextremist views are attacked as supporting the other sides. They are not always doing this in the same ways and in the same places, but there is a definite trend. I’m not making excuses for one side by saying the other side is doing it, both threaten the republic and world peace.
- mensetmanusman 3y agoPeople that don't understand math appreciate dictatorships because they can imagine themselves in power.
- nradov 3y agoBack during the early Cold War, some Americans were concerned that the Soviet model would out compete democracy and free market capitalism. They might beat us without even fighting. Later we found out that it was all a facade. Their purported successes were all lies and failures. The entire society was rotten to the core and eventually the internal contradictions ripped it apart. China is not to be taken lightly. They are a legitimate threat and strategic competitor. But they also face enormous problems due to unfavorable geography, lack of key natural resources, corruption, malinvestment, and demographic collapse. These problems are not getting better, and I won't be surprised if there's a violent civil war in 30 years (as has happened many times over millennia of Chinese history).
- aaomidi 3y agoI mean, then why did we spend so much money and kill so many people destabilizing half the world? If the model was so rotten to begin with, that is. How many people did the west directly and indirectly kill in the 20th century?
- callalex 3y agoFor the same reason we still do: it’s incredibly profitable for the people who make weapons.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- janalsncm 3y agoI believe your analysis conflates economic systems with political ones. The U.S. doesn’t have an entirely free market capitalism system (see: farm subsidies which fed into supermarket propaganda) and China doesn’t have an entirely planned economy. As far as political systems go, the collapse of China seems to always be around the corner. But in reality, the U.S. seems to be much closer to civil war. No faction stormed the Capitol in Beijing when Xi was appointed. And even if our political system is not overthrown, it may die the death of 1000 cuts. How much can you honestly say Congress represents the People’s vs lobbyists (professional bribery) and PAC interests?
- malwarebytess 3y ago> One that can compete with and defeat democracy, in fact. If it's better then why shouldn't it win? Frankly the lines are blurred. So called liberty is not so clearly championed by the west any longer, and on top of that robber barons and corporations are running rampant through our societies and governments. There's no apparent upside for ordinary people to a Western victory any longer, or at least it's not clear cut. After all if we're going to be ruled by elites, and be under a system which can compete with capitalist "democracy," might as well be ruled by elites who are ideologically aligned with the people's well-being.
- Natsu 3y agoBetter for whom is the key question, I think. They're quite eager to do something about Taiwan which showed how much better China could be doing.
- hsuduebc2 3y agoBetter in what? This is really shallow relativization of someone mad at current system. It is not better in any values valued in "western civilization".
- foverzar 3y ago> they are putting their political system -- which is de facto a dictatorship selected periodically by a small ruling clique -- as an alternative model to democracy. Oh please. Just because you people in the west are stuck in the 20th century and have an unyielding urge to reformat other nations and instill a political system you're familiar with, doesn't mean anyone else cares for this kind of idiocy. Stop projecting. You're just like USSR with its obsession with "global revolution" and counterproductive dichotomies. And just like it happened with USSR, everyone else is getting pretty pissed with all that zealous crap that doesn't amount to anything but guised political opportunism IRL. It's not like your specific approach to governance looks any less shitty to other cultures. Grow up, embrace diversity, learn to play nice with others - yours is the last civilization that needs to take a long hard look at itself. Either naturally, or through some major political crisis, or, worst case scenario, everyone else will just gang up on you like Saudis, China, US, WEU and many others did on USSR, if god forbid all that global (outside NATO and its few aspirants) distaste for bullshit "holier than thou" attitude reaches a boiling point. Srsly, grow up. Traveling and meeting new people is extremely helpful in that regard.
- aaomidi 3y agoWhat’s really funny is that the democracy Americans keep touting as some amazing system is currently stripping away rights from: Queer folk Women Pro-Palestinian people Maybe it’s time to question if your democracy is at a point to be exported to the rest of the world (?)
- tonetheman 3y ago[dead]