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Of course they do, however an important distinction here is that Meta is banned in China and TikTok is not banned here. Both are bad, but Chinese netizens aren’

Of course they do, however an important distinction here is that Meta is banned in China and TikTok is not banned here. Both are bad, but Chinese netizens aren’t exposed to one of the two. China is quite good about filtering out which propaganda interests they want their citizens exposed to, and of course are more active in influencing operations globally as well. We can argue if that model of propaganda and control is good or not, but regardless they are smart enough to know that they don’t want to open up their youth to US propaganda machines but are happy to have us open ourselves to their propaganda. It’s asymmetrical, and that causes a lot of consternation. It’s also risky.

stavros 3y ago
Meta is banned because China is a dictatorship, not because bans are good.
- superduty 3y ago
  This.
- Kadin 3y ago
  "Dictatorships are bad" is not the game-over argument that it once was, maybe 20 years ago. The Chinese aren't just competing against the US for control of some islands and sea lanes here and there, they are putting their political system -- which is de facto a dictatorship selected periodically by a small ruling clique -- as an alternative model to democracy. One that can compete with and defeat democracy, in fact. And to be blunt, it's not clear to me that they are losing. We in the US have put ourselves at a disadvantage w/r/t China over and over again, relying ostensibly on the magical power of democracy to always win the day. As far as I can tell, it's straight-up magical thinking. If we do not take China seriously as a threat to democracy, not just internally to Asia but as an aspirational model of society and the basis for legitimate government, I think we risk losing. Why we would allow a propaganda outlet of what is effectively an enemy state to operate in the US, and why we would allow technology transfers and other advantageous trade arrangements, is mind boggling to me. Sure, the 'marketplace of ideas' sounds great on paper, but not when the other people don't believe in the same things. That sort of treatment -- access to the US market, both economically and that of ideas -- should be reserved for polities that at least have signed-on to the basic concepts that the US is built on.
  - stavros 3y ago
    I didn't say "dictatorships are bad". Also, there's quite some area between allowing a propaganda outlet and banning it completely. Then again, by the same token, why should the EU allow Meta to operate on its territory?
    - mrkstu 3y ago
      You're already seeing the EU investigate X/Twitter for not modulating the messaging of their users according to their (the EU's) dictates.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
  - mvdtnz 3y ago
    > "Dictatorships are bad" is not the game-over argument that it once was, maybe 20 years ago. Yes, it is. By god, something needs to be done about the absolute stupidity that is making its way through American universities. This is tragic.
    - colechristensen 3y ago
      It is indeed not the game over argument any more, measured by the people. Both sides of the political spectrum in America have been ever more strongly advocating for authoritarian enforcement of their political goals and both sides have increasing admiration for foreign dictatorships and terrorists. The extremes are closing in on the excluded middle which doesn’t have much of a voice at all as nonextremist views are attacked as supporting the other sides. They are not always doing this in the same ways and in the same places, but there is a definite trend. I’m not making excuses for one side by saying the other side is doing it, both threaten the republic and world peace.
    - mensetmanusman 3y ago
      People that don't understand math appreciate dictatorships because they can imagine themselves in power.
cma 3y ago
TikTok is not available in China, there is a different version under a different name with different content rules.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
ramblenode 3y ago
> Of course they do, however an important distinction here is that Meta is banned in China Meta isn't banned in China. They just haven't developed a product that complies with Chinese law (in large part because US lawmakers warned them not to do this---so more like an export ban than an import ban).
- eganist 3y ago
  > They just haven't developed a product that complies with Chinese law Strictly speaking then, Meta is banned in China for not complying with Chinese law.
  - ZoomerCretin 3y ago
    A ban implies there is some order that explicitly targets Meta. It's like saying Europe has a ban on American chicken imports, when the reality is that they have no problem with it so long as their laws and regulations are followed.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
  Which Chinese law?
jokethrowaway 3y ago
It's worse than that, the content we get in the west is drastically different to the one they get in China. It's not about exposing the west to chinese propaganda (sure, they'll promote the CCP view of any global topic, but that's often the same as our governments) it's about brainwashing western kids so they grow up to be useless and not a threat. Would you rather your youths learnt how to cook or do stupid 10s dances? Guess which content gets displayed in China vs the West. Not to mention the instances of mental illness spreading through tik tok via emulation (eg DID)
miguelazo 3y ago
> TikTok is not banned here False. It has already been banned in multiple jurisdictions, companies, and many government agencies.
- justinclift 3y ago
  So "slightly banned" then. ;)

stavros 3y ago

Meta is banned because China is a dictatorship, not because bans are good.

superduty 3y ago
This.
Kadin 3y ago
"Dictatorships are bad" is not the game-over argument that it once was, maybe 20 years ago. The Chinese aren't just competing against the US for control of some islands and sea lanes here and there, they are putting their political system -- which is de facto a dictatorship selected periodically by a small ruling clique -- as an alternative model to democracy. One that can compete with and defeat democracy, in fact. And to be blunt, it's not clear to me that they are losing. We in the US have put ourselves at a disadvantage w/r/t China over and over again, relying ostensibly on the magical power of democracy to always win the day. As far as I can tell, it's straight-up magical thinking. If we do not take China seriously as a threat to democracy, not just internally to Asia but as an aspirational model of society and the basis for legitimate government, I think we risk losing. Why we would allow a propaganda outlet of what is effectively an enemy state to operate in the US, and why we would allow technology transfers and other advantageous trade arrangements, is mind boggling to me. Sure, the 'marketplace of ideas' sounds great on paper, but not when the other people don't believe in the same things. That sort of treatment -- access to the US market, both economically and that of ideas -- should be reserved for polities that at least have signed-on to the basic concepts that the US is built on.
- stavros 3y ago
  I didn't say "dictatorships are bad". Also, there's quite some area between allowing a propaganda outlet and banning it completely. Then again, by the same token, why should the EU allow Meta to operate on its territory?
  - mrkstu 3y ago
    You're already seeing the EU investigate X/Twitter for not modulating the messaging of their users according to their (the EU's) dictates.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- mvdtnz 3y ago
  > "Dictatorships are bad" is not the game-over argument that it once was, maybe 20 years ago. Yes, it is. By god, something needs to be done about the absolute stupidity that is making its way through American universities. This is tragic.
  - colechristensen 3y ago
    It is indeed not the game over argument any more, measured by the people. Both sides of the political spectrum in America have been ever more strongly advocating for authoritarian enforcement of their political goals and both sides have increasing admiration for foreign dictatorships and terrorists. The extremes are closing in on the excluded middle which doesn’t have much of a voice at all as nonextremist views are attacked as supporting the other sides. They are not always doing this in the same ways and in the same places, but there is a definite trend. I’m not making excuses for one side by saying the other side is doing it, both threaten the republic and world peace.
  - mensetmanusman 3y ago
    People that don't understand math appreciate dictatorships because they can imagine themselves in power.

cma 3y ago

TikTok is not available in China, there is a different version under a different name with different content rules.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

ramblenode 3y ago

> Of course they do, however an important distinction here is that Meta is banned in China Meta isn't banned in China. They just haven't developed a product that complies with Chinese law (in large part because US lawmakers warned them not to do this---so more like an export ban than an import ban).

eganist 3y ago
> They just haven't developed a product that complies with Chinese law Strictly speaking then, Meta is banned in China for not complying with Chinese law.
- ZoomerCretin 3y ago
  A ban implies there is some order that explicitly targets Meta. It's like saying Europe has a ban on American chicken imports, when the reality is that they have no problem with it so long as their laws and regulations are followed.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
Which Chinese law?

jokethrowaway 3y ago

It's worse than that, the content we get in the west is drastically different to the one they get in China. It's not about exposing the west to chinese propaganda (sure, they'll promote the CCP view of any global topic, but that's often the same as our governments) it's about brainwashing western kids so they grow up to be useless and not a threat. Would you rather your youths learnt how to cook or do stupid 10s dances? Guess which content gets displayed in China vs the West. Not to mention the instances of mental illness spreading through tik tok via emulation (eg DID)

miguelazo 3y ago

> TikTok is not banned here False. It has already been banned in multiple jurisdictions, companies, and many government agencies.

justinclift 3y ago
So "slightly banned" then. ;)