5 ms·

Can someone explain how every single post about Palestine/Israel is flagged and removed the instant it hits front page? I have seen this with around 4-5 thread

by cthaeh 3y ago

Can someone explain how every single post about Palestine/Israel is flagged and removed the instant it hits front page? I have seen this with around 4-5 threads personally and who knows how many I missed

dang 3y ago
Users are flagging them. I don't think it's hard to understand why: it's a divisive and flameprone topic. Two positions that people urge us to take (different people, obviously) are (1) treat it as off topic and flag everything; or (2) have no limits, which means letting it dominate the front page. Neither of these positions are viable for HN. For reasons why I say that, see past explanations at https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=political%20overlap%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so... - these are general explanations, not specifically about Gaza, but they apply to that also. HN has had at least two major related threads so far: The pro-Israel information war - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38572675 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38572675 - Dec 2023 (1673 comments) 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38616550 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38616550 - Dec 2023 (1309 comments) Here are some explanations I posted the last time this question of flags came up, in case helpful at all: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38657829 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38657829 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38657527 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38657527 Obviously we want commenters to have thoughtful, respectful, open conversation with each other rather than just fighting a war on HN. Equally obviously, it's pretty hard to avoid the latter. These things can only be 'graded on a curve', i.e. moderation has to shift somewhat, relative to the topic - not to do that would be expecting people not to be human, which is a losing proposition. But that does not mean the rules somehow switch off. Accounts that break the HN guidelines egregiously (such as by getting aggressive or posting in the flamewar style) are going to get warned and/or banned, regardless of who they're battling for or against. More than that, I'm not sure what we can do.
- user982 3y ago
  Have you noticed any patterns or organization in the flagging and voting of this subject, or does it all look organic?
  - morkalork 3y ago
    What if it was organic? It would suck wouldn't it eh?
  - dang 3y ago
    I haven't looked closely, but based on what I have looked at, plus prior experience, I believe that flags of this kind are a coalition between two subgroups of user: those who dislike the content of an article for political or ideological reasons, and those who are more concerned about the content being bad for HN (e.g. because they're worried about flamewars).
    - arp242 3y ago
      > because they're worried about flamewars Huh? I've never seen a flamewar on this topic? I wish HN was more granular about measures for users, e.g. by marking these highly contested topics and just giving people topic-bans. Some people just completely lose their shit, and then other people lose their shit in response, and these people post a million messages by the time the rest of us managed to actually read the article and perhaps some relevant background info. It just craps up everything. That's what Wikipedia does. Works reasonably well. Of course it'd have to be programmed.
      - oefrha 3y ago
        > I've never seen a flamewar on this topic? What? Do you have showdead on? I flagged this one, because “discussions” on this topic are mostly hot garbage, they are dominated by extremely motivated people shitting canned flamebait all over the place, especially early on. Indeed by the time I saw and flagged this there were already like four or five people doing exactly that, and by keeping it up, more of this type of users are invited. They are largely flagged by now, leaving an entire page of flagged stuff and more interwoven in the somewhat visible page; must be one of, if not the lowest signal-to-flag stories on HN. I can only see like 20% of 352 comments so far without showdead.
nomdep 3y ago
[flagged]
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- meticulous_gal 3y ago
  [flagged]
asylteltine 3y ago
Because it doesn’t belong here and it’s inflammatory. Also most articles are heavily biased but claim not to be. For example, they trust numbers given by an internationally recognized terrorist organization. But tell me again how it’s not biased.
cultofmetatron 3y ago
I've also had my por palestinian posts flagged. the really insane thing is I never call for violence and every assertion I make about human rights violations I make gets backed up with a link to a documentary or news story. I even tryto avoid using aljezeera as a my lone source. Over the last to months I've spent a lot of time researching teh history of the conflict and it becomes clear that the israeli side depends on people being apathetic to whats going on.
- Tainnor 3y ago
  > it becomes clear that the israeli side depends on people being apathetic to whats going on. this is flamebait
quitit 3y ago
Possibly due to the topic attracting emotional, inflammatory responses rather than an objective, on-topic discussion. Some people can't resist and have to turn every thread into a battlefield as if this achieves something on the ground. (Often citing the exact same disinformation that has been propagating across social media.)

by cthaeh 3y ago

dang 3y ago

Users are flagging them. I don't think it's hard to understand why: it's a divisive and flameprone topic. Two positions that people urge us to take (different people, obviously) are (1) treat it as off topic and flag everything; or (2) have no limits, which means letting it dominate the front page. Neither of these positions are viable for HN. For reasons why I say that, see past explanations at https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=political%20overlap%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so... - these are general explanations, not specifically about Gaza, but they apply to that also. HN has had at least two major related threads so far: The pro-Israel information war - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38572675 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38572675 - Dec 2023 (1673 comments) 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38616550 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38616550 - Dec 2023 (1309 comments) Here are some explanations I posted the last time this question of flags came up, in case helpful at all: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38657829 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38657829 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38657527 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38657527 Obviously we want commenters to have thoughtful, respectful, open conversation with each other rather than just fighting a war on HN. Equally obviously, it's pretty hard to avoid the latter. These things can only be 'graded on a curve', i.e. moderation has to shift somewhat, relative to the topic - not to do that would be expecting people not to be human, which is a losing proposition. But that does not mean the rules somehow switch off. Accounts that break the HN guidelines egregiously (such as by getting aggressive or posting in the flamewar style) are going to get warned and/or banned, regardless of who they're battling for or against. More than that, I'm not sure what we can do.

user982 3y ago
Have you noticed any patterns or organization in the flagging and voting of this subject, or does it all look organic?
- morkalork 3y ago
  What if it was organic? It would suck wouldn't it eh?
- dang 3y ago
  I haven't looked closely, but based on what I have looked at, plus prior experience, I believe that flags of this kind are a coalition between two subgroups of user: those who dislike the content of an article for political or ideological reasons, and those who are more concerned about the content being bad for HN (e.g. because they're worried about flamewars).
  - arp242 3y ago
    > because they're worried about flamewars Huh? I've never seen a flamewar on this topic? I wish HN was more granular about measures for users, e.g. by marking these highly contested topics and just giving people topic-bans. Some people just completely lose their shit, and then other people lose their shit in response, and these people post a million messages by the time the rest of us managed to actually read the article and perhaps some relevant background info. It just craps up everything. That's what Wikipedia does. Works reasonably well. Of course it'd have to be programmed.
    - oefrha 3y ago
      > I've never seen a flamewar on this topic? What? Do you have showdead on? I flagged this one, because “discussions” on this topic are mostly hot garbage, they are dominated by extremely motivated people shitting canned flamebait all over the place, especially early on. Indeed by the time I saw and flagged this there were already like four or five people doing exactly that, and by keeping it up, more of this type of users are invited. They are largely flagged by now, leaving an entire page of flagged stuff and more interwoven in the somewhat visible page; must be one of, if not the lowest signal-to-flag stories on HN. I can only see like 20% of 352 comments so far without showdead.

nomdep 3y ago

[flagged]

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
meticulous_gal 3y ago
[flagged]

asylteltine 3y ago

Because it doesn’t belong here and it’s inflammatory. Also most articles are heavily biased but claim not to be. For example, they trust numbers given by an internationally recognized terrorist organization. But tell me again how it’s not biased.

cultofmetatron 3y ago

I've also had my por palestinian posts flagged. the really insane thing is I never call for violence and every assertion I make about human rights violations I make gets backed up with a link to a documentary or news story. I even tryto avoid using aljezeera as a my lone source. Over the last to months I've spent a lot of time researching teh history of the conflict and it becomes clear that the israeli side depends on people being apathetic to whats going on.

Tainnor 3y ago
> it becomes clear that the israeli side depends on people being apathetic to whats going on. this is flamebait

quitit 3y ago

Possibly due to the topic attracting emotional, inflammatory responses rather than an objective, on-topic discussion. Some people can't resist and have to turn every thread into a battlefield as if this achieves something on the ground. (Often citing the exact same disinformation that has been propagating across social media.)