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I think the idea that relatively rich people have more to lose is important. Age is also a factor. I worked retail in high school and then office jobs the rest

I think the idea that relatively rich people have more to lose is important. Age is also a factor. I worked retail in high school and then office jobs the rest of my life. When I worked retail, half the teen males I worked with were stealing merchandise from the store we worked at. In my 20 years of office work, with all the electronic surveillance of our behavior, I have encountered maybe 2 person I worked with that was crime adjacent. If you are a 17 year old male making $5/hr hourly in precarious employment, then stealing a $500 electronic device is an interesting proposition, it's also an 80x return. If you are a married adult supporting your family making $200k in steady employment, then stealing some office equipment or falsifying invoices is a lot riskier of a proposition, and for what?

seanmcdirmid 3y ago
You’d be surprised how many techies making $200k a year will engage in insider trading. The first few cases I heard about were just shocking, because they are very likely to get caught, and their lives ruined.
- steveBK123 3y ago
  I've seen assertions like this before but I think it still falls into the opportunity set theory. The frequency that someone making $200k in a tech firm finds out information that is material and that can give them a return worth risking $200k job, is rather low. Especially in comparison to the daily opportunity to commit crimes on the scale of $100-1000 if you are making minimum wage. So the frequency of temptation is lower the higher your income, I would argue.
- gruez 3y ago
  >You’d be surprised how many techies making $200k a year will engage in insider trading Well, how many? The US is a big country, so you're going to be able to come up with dozens of cases even if the base rate is minuscule. See also: https://slatestarcodex.com/2015/09/16/cardiologists-and-chinese-robbers/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2015/09/16/cardiologists-and-chin...
  - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
    I was just surprised about the number of actual cases I was aware of. It is anecdotal, but I otherwise would not thought it was common enough to know of one incident, let alone multiple ones. I guess the people who do this simply don’t know better, and are used to developing world stock markets where the rules are very different from here. The insider trading training corps push is actually useful for informing people how different it is here.
Simulacra 3y ago
Heard a very similar argument around suicide. People with more education and wealth seem to commit suicide greater than those without. So much of State, so much to lose, so much invested, it's like having the rug pulled out from under you I guess.
- steveBK123 3y ago
  Same argument for why immigrants tend to commit less crime. Being here is the opportunity of a lifetime and risking it is rarely worthwhile.
imacomputertoo 3y ago
Isn't this rejected by the study. If poor people have less to lose, then why doesn't the data show that increasing their wealth reduces their crime rate? If they are awarded more money, then they have more to lose, yet their rate is crime forward but decrease according to this study, no?
- ethbr1 3y ago
  Because they didn't invest time and effort in the means to acquire that wealth, which is the thing most wealthy people are truly afraid to lose. Professional licensing (e.g. MD), social network and reputation, political power. Giving someone even a lot of cash doesn't tie them to "the system" in the way that those things do.

seanmcdirmid 3y ago

You’d be surprised how many techies making $200k a year will engage in insider trading. The first few cases I heard about were just shocking, because they are very likely to get caught, and their lives ruined.

steveBK123 3y ago
I've seen assertions like this before but I think it still falls into the opportunity set theory. The frequency that someone making $200k in a tech firm finds out information that is material and that can give them a return worth risking $200k job, is rather low. Especially in comparison to the daily opportunity to commit crimes on the scale of $100-1000 if you are making minimum wage. So the frequency of temptation is lower the higher your income, I would argue.
gruez 3y ago
>You’d be surprised how many techies making $200k a year will engage in insider trading Well, how many? The US is a big country, so you're going to be able to come up with dozens of cases even if the base rate is minuscule. See also: https://slatestarcodex.com/2015/09/16/cardiologists-and-chinese-robbers/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2015/09/16/cardiologists-and-chin...
- seanmcdirmid 3y ago
  I was just surprised about the number of actual cases I was aware of. It is anecdotal, but I otherwise would not thought it was common enough to know of one incident, let alone multiple ones. I guess the people who do this simply don’t know better, and are used to developing world stock markets where the rules are very different from here. The insider trading training corps push is actually useful for informing people how different it is here.

Simulacra 3y ago

Heard a very similar argument around suicide. People with more education and wealth seem to commit suicide greater than those without. So much of State, so much to lose, so much invested, it's like having the rug pulled out from under you I guess.

steveBK123 3y ago
Same argument for why immigrants tend to commit less crime. Being here is the opportunity of a lifetime and risking it is rarely worthwhile.

imacomputertoo 3y ago

Isn't this rejected by the study. If poor people have less to lose, then why doesn't the data show that increasing their wealth reduces their crime rate? If they are awarded more money, then they have more to lose, yet their rate is crime forward but decrease according to this study, no?

ethbr1 3y ago
Because they didn't invest time and effort in the means to acquire that wealth, which is the thing most wealthy people are truly afraid to lose. Professional licensing (e.g. MD), social network and reputation, political power. Giving someone even a lot of cash doesn't tie them to "the system" in the way that those things do.