3 ms·

It is well known that the crimes committed by poor people are prosecuted more consistently and more frequently than the complicated white-collar crimes committe

It is well known that the crimes committed by poor people are prosecuted more consistently and more frequently than the complicated white-collar crimes committed by wealthier people.

seanmcdirmid 3y ago
It’s not really well known. We’ve almost stopped prosecuting any petty crime at all in some jurisdictions (so it’s like shoplift till you drop). AG’s and county DA’s, on the other hand, make it a point to pursue white collar crime very aggressively, and whenever the Feds are involved (eg for insider trading), they are very aggressive. The issue with white collar crime, is that it is simply very hard to identify, while the guy walking out of Target with a basketful of stuff while avoiding checkout is just really obvious. It is also a matter of incentives. The only thing goin after most shoplifters will get the state is having to fund their court appearances and incarceration, a net loss. Going after a rich guy for a crime nets them real money, so when they can they definitely will do it (at least where I live, your locale will differ).
- jonnycomputer 3y ago
  That people commit shop-lifting and other minor crimes with impunity is a right-wing meme that has very little basis in reality. It's being pushed by grifters with a financial interest in promoting the idea of societal decay and disorder and getting people worked up and afraid.
  - gruez 3y ago
    >That people commit shop-lifting and other minor crimes with impunity is a right-wing meme that has very little basis in reality How do you square this against DAs that openly state they won't prosecute such crimes?
    - jonnycomputer 3y ago
      You have data showing decreasing prosecution rates for such crimes, or is this selective reporting of what a few DAs (of the many thousands in this country) said? Vibes vibes vibes.
      - gruez 3y ago
        So if you're being held up at gunpoint, what's going to be your response? "Well ackshually the chances of being robbed is less than 0.1% per year, so the idea that I'm being victimized is a right-wing meme that has very little basis in reality"? The fact that DAs in Mississippi are oppressing shoplifters is cold comfort to a storeowner in NY, LA, Dallas, St. Louis[1], SF[2], or Portland[3]. And that's just the jurisdictions I could turn up in a 2 minute google search. [1] https://www.apainc.org/choosing-not-to-prosecute-low-level-crimes-may-reduce-future-crime-research-finds/ https://www.apainc.org/choosing-not-to-prosecute-low-level-c... [2] https://www.sfexaminer.com/archives/data-shows-chesa-boudin-prosecutes-fewer-shoplifters-than-predecessor/article_7dbc7d85-cde9-59d9-8f23-7b240ee6f26d.html https://www.sfexaminer.com/archives/data-shows-chesa-boudin-... [3] https://www.kgw.com/article/news/local/the-story/multnomah-da-shoplifting-theft-prosecution/283-fd54e0dc-0a01-462b-a0af-1432955aa6e7 https://www.kgw.com/article/news/local/the-story/multnomah-d...
  - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
    Not a right winger watching FauxNews, just a moderate (somewhat left of center). But when you see shoplifting happening multiple times a week, where the store worker or security guard is saying “would you please pay for that?” It’s obvious something is out of control.
    - jonnycomputer 3y ago
      And where's the data? Like here is the larceny-theft rate from 1990 to 2022. https://www.statista.com/statistics/191247/reported-larceny-theft-rate-in-the-us-since-1990/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/191247/reported-larceny-... This suggests shoplifting is down since 2018 in a large number of cities. https://www.statista.com/chart/31272/number-of-shoplifting-incidents-per-100000-people-in-selected-us-cities/ https://www.statista.com/chart/31272/number-of-shoplifting-i... Again, vibes are manipulated by selective highlighting of specific examples of outrageous behavior. It's often done because certain people profit from your feeling that things are falling apart around you.
      - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
        Reporting of shoplifting to the police is down for sure, since the police aren’t doing anything about it, there is no reason to report it. How does QFC report something that happens hourly, when they are understaffed already and those reports can only be taken over a phone that is unlikely to be answered, since the police are also understaffed? Petty crime reporting is notoriously noisy, the only reliable crime statistic is homicide (it is actually illegal to not report a murder).
        jonnycomputer 3y ago
        so you don't have data is what i am hearing.
        seanmcdirmid 3y ago
        And your data is incomplete, so? We have police chiefs here begging people to report crime since they need it for decent statistic is even if they can’t act on it.
pentaphobe 3y ago
Spot on - and this doesn't only apply to white collar crime - the wealthy are overwhelmingly more likely to escape prosecution for any crime. Whether through having resources to get off (legitimately or illegitimately), or just cultural bias (Eg. The mere existence of terms like "white-collar crime")

It is well known that the crimes committed by poor people are prosecuted more consistently and more frequently than the complicated white-collar crimes committed by wealthier people.

seanmcdirmid 3y ago

It’s not really well known. We’ve almost stopped prosecuting any petty crime at all in some jurisdictions (so it’s like shoplift till you drop). AG’s and county DA’s, on the other hand, make it a point to pursue white collar crime very aggressively, and whenever the Feds are involved (eg for insider trading), they are very aggressive. The issue with white collar crime, is that it is simply very hard to identify, while the guy walking out of Target with a basketful of stuff while avoiding checkout is just really obvious. It is also a matter of incentives. The only thing goin after most shoplifters will get the state is having to fund their court appearances and incarceration, a net loss. Going after a rich guy for a crime nets them real money, so when they can they definitely will do it (at least where I live, your locale will differ).

jonnycomputer 3y ago
That people commit shop-lifting and other minor crimes with impunity is a right-wing meme that has very little basis in reality. It's being pushed by grifters with a financial interest in promoting the idea of societal decay and disorder and getting people worked up and afraid.
- gruez 3y ago
  >That people commit shop-lifting and other minor crimes with impunity is a right-wing meme that has very little basis in reality How do you square this against DAs that openly state they won't prosecute such crimes?
  - jonnycomputer 3y ago
    You have data showing decreasing prosecution rates for such crimes, or is this selective reporting of what a few DAs (of the many thousands in this country) said? Vibes vibes vibes.
    - gruez 3y ago
      So if you're being held up at gunpoint, what's going to be your response? "Well ackshually the chances of being robbed is less than 0.1% per year, so the idea that I'm being victimized is a right-wing meme that has very little basis in reality"? The fact that DAs in Mississippi are oppressing shoplifters is cold comfort to a storeowner in NY, LA, Dallas, St. Louis[1], SF[2], or Portland[3]. And that's just the jurisdictions I could turn up in a 2 minute google search. [1] https://www.apainc.org/choosing-not-to-prosecute-low-level-crimes-may-reduce-future-crime-research-finds/ https://www.apainc.org/choosing-not-to-prosecute-low-level-c... [2] https://www.sfexaminer.com/archives/data-shows-chesa-boudin-prosecutes-fewer-shoplifters-than-predecessor/article_7dbc7d85-cde9-59d9-8f23-7b240ee6f26d.html https://www.sfexaminer.com/archives/data-shows-chesa-boudin-... [3] https://www.kgw.com/article/news/local/the-story/multnomah-da-shoplifting-theft-prosecution/283-fd54e0dc-0a01-462b-a0af-1432955aa6e7 https://www.kgw.com/article/news/local/the-story/multnomah-d...
- seanmcdirmid 3y ago
  Not a right winger watching FauxNews, just a moderate (somewhat left of center). But when you see shoplifting happening multiple times a week, where the store worker or security guard is saying “would you please pay for that?” It’s obvious something is out of control.
  - jonnycomputer 3y ago
    And where's the data? Like here is the larceny-theft rate from 1990 to 2022. https://www.statista.com/statistics/191247/reported-larceny-theft-rate-in-the-us-since-1990/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/191247/reported-larceny-... This suggests shoplifting is down since 2018 in a large number of cities. https://www.statista.com/chart/31272/number-of-shoplifting-incidents-per-100000-people-in-selected-us-cities/ https://www.statista.com/chart/31272/number-of-shoplifting-i... Again, vibes are manipulated by selective highlighting of specific examples of outrageous behavior. It's often done because certain people profit from your feeling that things are falling apart around you.
    - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
      Reporting of shoplifting to the police is down for sure, since the police aren’t doing anything about it, there is no reason to report it. How does QFC report something that happens hourly, when they are understaffed already and those reports can only be taken over a phone that is unlikely to be answered, since the police are also understaffed? Petty crime reporting is notoriously noisy, the only reliable crime statistic is homicide (it is actually illegal to not report a murder).
      - jonnycomputer 3y ago
        so you don't have data is what i am hearing.
        seanmcdirmid 3y ago
        And your data is incomplete, so? We have police chiefs here begging people to report crime since they need it for decent statistic is even if they can’t act on it.

pentaphobe 3y ago

Spot on - and this doesn't only apply to white collar crime - the wealthy are overwhelmingly more likely to escape prosecution for any crime. Whether through having resources to get off (legitimately or illegitimately), or just cultural bias (Eg. The mere existence of terms like "white-collar crime")