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I expect webstores to be less relevant in 5 years from now. PWA are getting more on pair with their native sisters. Banking apps, social media etc . There is no

I expect webstores to be less relevant in 5 years from now. PWA are getting more on pair with their native sisters. Banking apps, social media etc . There is no real reason to have a native app. Only graphic demanding apps will have a slightly longer life. But the end is near for Kotlin and Swift apps. I cannot be more happy.

vladgur 3y ago
What’s a good site that lists current differences between native apps and PWAs? Like can PWAs run in background or respond to location changes, etc
- holoduke 3y ago
  Native apps are restricted for backend tasks as well. Only on very rare exception native apps are allowed to run processes in the background. Now you have service workers in PWA land. They can wake up apps for i.e push notications. So all in all there is not a difference. Location changes are available in web for a long time. Just like camera and other sensor data.
scarface_74 3y ago
So if that’s true, why are app developers still releasing Android apps instead of just letting them use the web version? And I haven’t heard anyone say “you know I have a really great experience with web apps. I wish all of my apps were web apps on mobile and Electron on my computer”
- jamil7 3y ago
  Because PWAs on mobile remain kind of underwhelming still. Native APIs are missing, navigation stacks are not there and performance is still quite bad even on higher end phones, although the last one is probably implementation specific. There are also only two platforms so the insensitive for businesses aren’t as strong.
- jampekka 3y ago
  I'm wondering about the same. Vast majority of "apps" would work just as well, or better, as a website. In fact a lot of them do, e.g. this very site. I think a part of it is an "app craze", i.e. organizations want "apps" just because "an app" is something fancier and totally different than "just a website". I have done an "app" like this (implemented as an optionally installable website). Also many people, including many developers, also vastly underestimate what can be done with contemporary browsers, so they assume that "a native app" is needed if you e.g. want to take a picture or read a file.
diegof79 3y ago
I’m not sure if I’ll be happy about a future where everything is a PWA. My main concern is monetization. With a PWA the traditional monetization method of selling apps doesn’t work. So, your options will be a subscription or ads. But, a subscription is too much hustle for small utilities and casual games. And I love apps like Procreate that are paid, without subscription and ad-free.
- deergomoo 3y ago
  > So, your options will be a subscription or ads. We're basically there already unfortunately, even for store-distributed software. Apps like Procreate and Pixelmator are a rarity these days. It definitely doesn't help that the App Store makes charging for new major versions awkward, and that upgrade discounts are basically impossible, but I suspect the main reason is that most developers just make more money from subs than purchases. As a consumer though, it sucks. Subscriptions are fine if your product has an ongoing cost to you as the developer, for example server or API fees. And I really don't mind JetBrains-style subs, where you can cancel any time and you retain access to the last version you paid for, for as long as it still works on your machine. But, while I appreciate the need for ongoing revenue to continue paying salaries, I am not interested in renting software in perpetuity—that's not a fair deal. Especially when it robs me of the ability to stick with an older version if I prefer it.
- uxp8u61q 3y ago
  > With a PWA the traditional monetization method of selling apps doesn’t work. So, your options will be a subscription or ads. How so? Offer to install the pwa and unlock functionality only after the user has paid. How is that different from a paid "app"?
  - Uvix 3y ago
    On the app stores, you can redownload purchases at any time. With a PWA you’re dependent on the vendor still supporting the app.
    - uxp8u61q 3y ago
clumsysmurf 3y ago
The reason why banking apps are native, not web, is to collect rich fingerprinting for fraud detection and prevention... not for any specific "rich UI" experience, etc.
- modeless 3y ago
  But people so often say they hate web stuff because of all the fingerprinting and tracking. Which is it?
  - dagmx 3y ago
    Both can be true. People hate fingerprinting when it tracks you across sites without your consent. If a service is doing it for your benefit with your express consent, then what’s the problem?
troupo 3y ago
> PWA are getting more on pair with their native sisters. Not really, no > There is no real reason to have a native app. Except, you know, for all the reasons where anything web-based sucks: resources needed to run, fast reaction times, performant animations, rich complex controls etc. The web, unfortunately, made everyone accept the most limited and under-developed version of what things could be.
- holoduke 3y ago
  I would argue that the css render engine is more performant than its native counterparts. Css animations are very rich. Much more so than android or ios sdks provide
  - troupo 3y ago
    If you think about them in isolation, maybe. But you have to apply them to DOM. Where every single little thing results in a re-layout and repaint. There are reasons why you still can't animate height: auto. The built-in controls also don't help. Can't find it now, but details set display:none or visibility:none on closed contents, and that can't be animated. And there are a million such things.
dfgfek 3y ago
Web-based apps have been getting more on pair with native apps since 2008. They still aren't there and they are likely to never get there.
- callalex 3y ago
  To me it’s the opposite. Every downloaded app is just a web app in a skin suit.
- bonestamp2 3y ago
  I wouldn't say never. I mean, you might be right, but between GPU support and WebAssembly, there is a lot of potential for web-based apps to become more popular than native apps in the future. It's all going to come down to the developer and user experiences of each.
  - MBCook 3y ago
    The developer experience is irrelevant. The developer experience on the PlayStation 2 and PlayStation 3 was horrible, but people developed for it. The development experience for a PWA could be a dream and it won’t matter if users don’t like them. User acceptance is all that matters.

vladgur 3y ago

What’s a good site that lists current differences between native apps and PWAs? Like can PWAs run in background or respond to location changes, etc

holoduke 3y ago
Native apps are restricted for backend tasks as well. Only on very rare exception native apps are allowed to run processes in the background. Now you have service workers in PWA land. They can wake up apps for i.e push notications. So all in all there is not a difference. Location changes are available in web for a long time. Just like camera and other sensor data.

scarface_74 3y ago

So if that’s true, why are app developers still releasing Android apps instead of just letting them use the web version? And I haven’t heard anyone say “you know I have a really great experience with web apps. I wish all of my apps were web apps on mobile and Electron on my computer”

jamil7 3y ago
Because PWAs on mobile remain kind of underwhelming still. Native APIs are missing, navigation stacks are not there and performance is still quite bad even on higher end phones, although the last one is probably implementation specific. There are also only two platforms so the insensitive for businesses aren’t as strong.
jampekka 3y ago
I'm wondering about the same. Vast majority of "apps" would work just as well, or better, as a website. In fact a lot of them do, e.g. this very site. I think a part of it is an "app craze", i.e. organizations want "apps" just because "an app" is something fancier and totally different than "just a website". I have done an "app" like this (implemented as an optionally installable website). Also many people, including many developers, also vastly underestimate what can be done with contemporary browsers, so they assume that "a native app" is needed if you e.g. want to take a picture or read a file.

diegof79 3y ago

I’m not sure if I’ll be happy about a future where everything is a PWA. My main concern is monetization. With a PWA the traditional monetization method of selling apps doesn’t work. So, your options will be a subscription or ads. But, a subscription is too much hustle for small utilities and casual games. And I love apps like Procreate that are paid, without subscription and ad-free.

deergomoo 3y ago
> So, your options will be a subscription or ads. We're basically there already unfortunately, even for store-distributed software. Apps like Procreate and Pixelmator are a rarity these days. It definitely doesn't help that the App Store makes charging for new major versions awkward, and that upgrade discounts are basically impossible, but I suspect the main reason is that most developers just make more money from subs than purchases. As a consumer though, it sucks. Subscriptions are fine if your product has an ongoing cost to you as the developer, for example server or API fees. And I really don't mind JetBrains-style subs, where you can cancel any time and you retain access to the last version you paid for, for as long as it still works on your machine. But, while I appreciate the need for ongoing revenue to continue paying salaries, I am not interested in renting software in perpetuity—that's not a fair deal. Especially when it robs me of the ability to stick with an older version if I prefer it.
uxp8u61q 3y ago
> With a PWA the traditional monetization method of selling apps doesn’t work. So, your options will be a subscription or ads. How so? Offer to install the pwa and unlock functionality only after the user has paid. How is that different from a paid "app"?
- Uvix 3y ago
  On the app stores, you can redownload purchases at any time. With a PWA you’re dependent on the vendor still supporting the app.
  - uxp8u61q 3y ago

clumsysmurf 3y ago

The reason why banking apps are native, not web, is to collect rich fingerprinting for fraud detection and prevention... not for any specific "rich UI" experience, etc.

modeless 3y ago
But people so often say they hate web stuff because of all the fingerprinting and tracking. Which is it?
- dagmx 3y ago
  Both can be true. People hate fingerprinting when it tracks you across sites without your consent. If a service is doing it for your benefit with your express consent, then what’s the problem?

troupo 3y ago

> PWA are getting more on pair with their native sisters. Not really, no > There is no real reason to have a native app. Except, you know, for all the reasons where anything web-based sucks: resources needed to run, fast reaction times, performant animations, rich complex controls etc. The web, unfortunately, made everyone accept the most limited and under-developed version of what things could be.

holoduke 3y ago
I would argue that the css render engine is more performant than its native counterparts. Css animations are very rich. Much more so than android or ios sdks provide
- troupo 3y ago
  If you think about them in isolation, maybe. But you have to apply them to DOM. Where every single little thing results in a re-layout and repaint. There are reasons why you still can't animate height: auto. The built-in controls also don't help. Can't find it now, but details set display:none or visibility:none on closed contents, and that can't be animated. And there are a million such things.

dfgfek 3y ago

Web-based apps have been getting more on pair with native apps since 2008. They still aren't there and they are likely to never get there.

callalex 3y ago
To me it’s the opposite. Every downloaded app is just a web app in a skin suit.
bonestamp2 3y ago
I wouldn't say never. I mean, you might be right, but between GPU support and WebAssembly, there is a lot of potential for web-based apps to become more popular than native apps in the future. It's all going to come down to the developer and user experiences of each.
- MBCook 3y ago
  The developer experience is irrelevant. The developer experience on the PlayStation 2 and PlayStation 3 was horrible, but people developed for it. The development experience for a PWA could be a dream and it won’t matter if users don’t like them. User acceptance is all that matters.