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The problem with California High Speed Rail is that they literally have no plans for the section that goes through the mountains. There are huge elevation chang

by ch4s3 3y ago

The problem with California High Speed Rail is that they literally have no plans for the section that goes through the mountains. There are huge elevation changes in a seismically active area and its not clear that they'll ever figure it out.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
tjpnz 3y ago
The Japanese figured it out decades ago. Get them to build it.
- davidw 3y ago
  Heck, the line from Florence to Rome in Italy goes through mountains and is pretty fast.
- ch4s3 3y ago
  California sure hasn't. They're billions over budget, and years behind schedule and keep putting off the part of the project that is the most challenging which is a hallmark of failed endeavors.
jeffbee 3y ago
Do you mean other than these plans? https://hsr.ca.gov/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/PB_03.1-AppxA_Mapbook_a11y.pdf https://hsr.ca.gov/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/PB_03.1-AppxA_...
- vlovich123 3y ago
  I believe plans in this case would be a description of how these problems would be handled not pictures showing where the tracks would go.
  - jeffbee 3y ago
    You're complaining that Appendix 3.1-A of Volume 2 of their 30000-page plan in insufficiently detailed? These drawings are detailed enough to build the railroad. https://hsr.ca.gov/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/01_P2K_PEPD_RECORD_SET_Rev02_Track_Alignment_Plans-a11y.pdf https://hsr.ca.gov/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/01_P2K_PEPD_RE...
    - vlovich123 3y ago
      No I'm saying parcel maps and data sheets are not an approachable high level description of how these challenges are getting resolved. It's possible it has been. I'm not disputing that. But I don't have the necessary technical background to read the data sheets and make that determination & go from low level technical info to high level description of how these problems are getting tackled. That being said, the biggest hurdle is with the HSR is not technical but the political disfunction within the US that cripples large projects: > “There were so many things that went wrong,” Mr. McNamara said. “SNCF was very angry. They told the state they were leaving for North Africa, which was less politically dysfunctional. They went to Morocco and helped them build a rail system.” Morocco’s bullet train started service in 2018. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/09/us/california-high-speed-rail-politics.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/09/us/california-high-speed-... The original route that was supposed to service SF <-> LA now has detours that have added substantially to the costs and slowed down the rail (no longer a straight line). Similarly, they started building it out in the easiest possible point (in the middle of the country in the flat lands) rather than in places where they could start operating it and providing value (Bay Area/LA). It was clearly hijacked as a way to steal funds earmarked for transit and now is such a large project that has begun, that funding will probably continue indefinitely to help save face.
      - jeffbee 3y ago
        > The original route What "original route"? The route is quite literally encoded into the state law, passed by plebiscite. The route is required to serve Fresno, Bakersfield, and Palmdale. The fact that SNCF thought it would be easier to build a TGV in a depopulated colony is immaterial. Seriously look at the cover of the 2005 EIR that was published before Prop. 1A was passed. This is the original route! There was never another one! https://hsr.ca.gov/wp-content/uploads/docs/programs/eir-eis/State_Wide_EIR_EIS_Volume_1_Part_1_of_3.pdf https://hsr.ca.gov/wp-content/uploads/docs/programs/eir-eis/... > It was clearly hijacked as a way to steal funds earmarked for transit More ignorance here. It's the opposite. Prop 1A funds are funding local transit projects, in the billions of dollars. HSR funds paid to electrify Caltrain. Look, it's perfectly obvious that you do not have a factual grounding for your beliefs. Instead of posting, why don't you research?
- ch4s3 3y ago
  Those are just proposed parcel maps, and the other document you linked says "See Tunnel Plans for more details". They very much haven't gotten into the details on how to make this segment work.
ascagnel_ 3y ago
> There are huge elevation changes in a seismically active area and its not clear that they'll ever figure it out. That same issue applies to any high-speed project that's not air travel, regardless of if it moves along asphalt or rails and if it runs on or below the ground.

by ch4s3 3y ago

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

tjpnz 3y ago

The Japanese figured it out decades ago. Get them to build it.

davidw 3y ago
Heck, the line from Florence to Rome in Italy goes through mountains and is pretty fast.
ch4s3 3y ago
California sure hasn't. They're billions over budget, and years behind schedule and keep putting off the part of the project that is the most challenging which is a hallmark of failed endeavors.

jeffbee 3y ago

Do you mean other than these plans? https://hsr.ca.gov/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/PB_03.1-AppxA_Mapbook_a11y.pdf https://hsr.ca.gov/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/PB_03.1-AppxA_...

vlovich123 3y ago
I believe plans in this case would be a description of how these problems would be handled not pictures showing where the tracks would go.
- jeffbee 3y ago
  You're complaining that Appendix 3.1-A of Volume 2 of their 30000-page plan in insufficiently detailed? These drawings are detailed enough to build the railroad. https://hsr.ca.gov/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/01_P2K_PEPD_RECORD_SET_Rev02_Track_Alignment_Plans-a11y.pdf https://hsr.ca.gov/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/01_P2K_PEPD_RE...
  - vlovich123 3y ago
    No I'm saying parcel maps and data sheets are not an approachable high level description of how these challenges are getting resolved. It's possible it has been. I'm not disputing that. But I don't have the necessary technical background to read the data sheets and make that determination & go from low level technical info to high level description of how these problems are getting tackled. That being said, the biggest hurdle is with the HSR is not technical but the political disfunction within the US that cripples large projects: > “There were so many things that went wrong,” Mr. McNamara said. “SNCF was very angry. They told the state they were leaving for North Africa, which was less politically dysfunctional. They went to Morocco and helped them build a rail system.” Morocco’s bullet train started service in 2018. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/09/us/california-high-speed-rail-politics.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/09/us/california-high-speed-... The original route that was supposed to service SF <-> LA now has detours that have added substantially to the costs and slowed down the rail (no longer a straight line). Similarly, they started building it out in the easiest possible point (in the middle of the country in the flat lands) rather than in places where they could start operating it and providing value (Bay Area/LA). It was clearly hijacked as a way to steal funds earmarked for transit and now is such a large project that has begun, that funding will probably continue indefinitely to help save face.
    - jeffbee 3y ago
      > The original route What "original route"? The route is quite literally encoded into the state law, passed by plebiscite. The route is required to serve Fresno, Bakersfield, and Palmdale. The fact that SNCF thought it would be easier to build a TGV in a depopulated colony is immaterial. Seriously look at the cover of the 2005 EIR that was published before Prop. 1A was passed. This is the original route! There was never another one! https://hsr.ca.gov/wp-content/uploads/docs/programs/eir-eis/State_Wide_EIR_EIS_Volume_1_Part_1_of_3.pdf https://hsr.ca.gov/wp-content/uploads/docs/programs/eir-eis/... > It was clearly hijacked as a way to steal funds earmarked for transit More ignorance here. It's the opposite. Prop 1A funds are funding local transit projects, in the billions of dollars. HSR funds paid to electrify Caltrain. Look, it's perfectly obvious that you do not have a factual grounding for your beliefs. Instead of posting, why don't you research?
ch4s3 3y ago
Those are just proposed parcel maps, and the other document you linked says "See Tunnel Plans for more details". They very much haven't gotten into the details on how to make this segment work.

ascagnel_ 3y ago

> There are huge elevation changes in a seismically active area and its not clear that they'll ever figure it out. That same issue applies to any high-speed project that's not air travel, regardless of if it moves along asphalt or rails and if it runs on or below the ground.