5 ms·

People at the office will ask about my usb dac/amp and they don't seem to get it. Yes, these devices are needed, because the audio outputs of all sorts of devi

by snvzz 3y ago

People at the office will ask about my usb dac/amp and they don't seem to get it. Yes, these devices are needed, because the audio outputs of all sorts of devices today simply are trash. Topping DX3 Pro+[0] is my current recommendation, by the way. As for headphones, Sennheiser HD600 really are solid. 0. https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/topping-dx3-pro-review-dac-headphone-amp.27148/ https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/t...

LanternLight83 3y ago
I have a Topping MX3, initially loved how knob feels but it bothered me that the tactile feedback didn't actually line up with the adjustments... mostly use the remote now anyways, which is great
m463 3y ago
I like schiit: https://www.schiit.com https://www.schiit.com I currently use a Hel day to day: https://www.schiit.com/products/hel-plus https://www.schiit.com/products/hel-plus Lets me do work meetings with headphone+mic on one system via USB, or switch and listen to PCM audio via second input
- snvzz 3y ago
  hel is decent and portable. If portable isn't needed, about the same money buys that topping, with digital encoder for volume, higher specs and better measurements... but no mic input.
simondotau 3y ago
> because the audio outputs of all sorts of devices today simply are trash As a staunch objectivist audiophile, I empathise with this view. But there's also too much of an obsession with achieving levels of dynamic range precision far in excess of the best audio recordings. Not to mention far in excess of the best human ears — let alone the typical ears of an audiophile with time and cash to burn. Perhaps most damning of all, being far, far, far, far far in excess of the noise floor of most people's listening environments. So long as your DAC/amp gives you a solid 100 dB of dynamic range, it's time to put down your wallet and enjoy the content.
jwrallie 3y ago
The $199 is why most people will question if you really need it. My laptop costed me a little bit over that, so maybe there is something in the market that goes 80% of the way for about 20% of its price?
- Dah00n 3y ago
  This exactly. As a former PA/recording engineer I like good audio quality too, but it is hard to know which devices are worth it when most lists are made by people that always like the $200 (or $2000) option better than the $2, $20 and $199 option. I know for a fact from actually using audio equipment where good quality is needed that the expensive options are often not worth it at all, but more often than not swap a tiny (if any) bit of extra quality for a monstrous price hike and worse hardiness. Of course, I'm not saying it isn't worth it at all. That depends on one's budget and ears. But most lists see the expensive option as the best, while most peoples needs and ears have zero use for the expensive option. I'd go so far as saying you could get 95% of the way for 10% of the price.
  - cwillu 3y ago
    It's like the old story: - one high quality capacitor: $1 - knowing where to put it: $799 [dark timeline: “knowing it doesn't matter where you put it: $12999”]
- daggersandscars 3y ago
  The USB-C headphone adaptors sold by Google / Apple / Samsung / etc are DAC + headphone amps. They're inexpensive (under $20, some under $10) and can have better components in them than a phone, laptop, etc. These should also work on laptops / desktops. Do some research first for your use case, but I suspect one can find one that will work for your machine + headphones. Soundguys has a review from October up on this topic: https://www.soundguys.com/best-usb-c-headphone-adapter-101302/ https://www.soundguys.com/best-usb-c-headphone-adapter-10130...
  - alright2565 3y ago
dvh 3y ago
I bought $3 USB soundcard and it sounds better than onboard sound card. PC16046 V2.0 (just checked, it's $1.22 incl. shipping)
- schwartzworld 3y ago
  Where? I tried searching and not many hits. In fact, this comment was #4
- aphrax 3y ago
  My google skills are letting me down - do you have a link for this?
  - squarefoot 3y ago
    PP probably refers to those very cheap USB soundcards, usually shaped like a dongle, with two mini jacks, sold pretty much everywhere. I tried a couple in the past (can't confirm if the chipset is the same) and they definitely sound better than expected from a device that cheap, however be aware that manufacturers often save on parts number or quality to reduce costs therefore it can be a hit and miss, with some of them making noises or offering inferior quality.
  - o11c 3y ago
    A few I would make about this: * USB soundcards used to work on Android but in recent tests they failed again for some reason * Avoid any dongle that supports "special effects", "gaming", etc. Even if they can be disabled, it's such a pain. * Dynamically adding/removing soundcards can affect your computer's notion of "default microphone", particularly relevant for video chat. Some apps this takes effect immediately, some after quitting the app.
  - dvh 3y ago
    https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000598865391.html https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000598865391.html Works out of box in ubuntu, this is how I use it: https://files.catbox.moe/755gbr.jpg https://files.catbox.moe/755gbr.jpg
- 3y ago
jvanderbot 3y ago
I have some headphones with an in-line soundcard that you can reprogram with your choice of EQ or effects. Love em. But they were spendy and it lacks the hacker ethos that I respect in these posts.
potk6 3y ago
[flagged]
hedora 3y ago
I have mixed feelings about standalone USB dac/amps these days. Back in the early days of digital audio, they made a huge difference. For example, when the Cowon U2 portable audio player came out: https://www.cnet.com/reviews/cowon-iaudio-u2-review/ https://www.cnet.com/reviews/cowon-iaudio-u2-review/ The iPod basically couldn't output bass because their dac couldn't maintain anything close to a square wave. (There used to be online comparisons of this thing with the iPod, similar to what you linked.) However, that was 20 years ago, and it hit -95db of hiss, 20-20khz frequency response, with way more power than is needed for in-ear monitors (which is my use case). Apple ended up shipping an iPod with a non-terrible DAC the next year (I think the touch was the first one? Can't remember). Anyway, now you kind of have to go off the beaten path to find consumer stuff that's perceptibly worse than ideal. In particular, you can get a USB-C -> headphone dongle from apple that's actually a decent DAC for $9 (look at the THD graph. They use the $9 Apple as the cutoff between "yellow" and "green"): https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-and-measurements-of-spectra-x-dac-amp.6861/ https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/r... These days, if you're getting noticeably bad performance out of your laptop DAC, it's probably a shielding or grounding issue. The standalone USB DAC will fix that, but only if it's externally powered + grounded (or if you get lucky with how your laptop is wired / shielded), but so would bluetooth (which even supports lossless audio as of 2021).
- jameshart 3y ago
  > couldn't output bass because their dac couldn't maintain anything close to a square wave Isn't the defining characteristic of a square wave the fact accurate reproduction of it requires the ability to produce high frequencies? Why would that be particularly problematic for bass?
  - heyoni 3y ago
    Because bass is low frequencies I imagine.
- jimmaswell 3y ago
  My ~2021 laptop is ok with noise but isn't powerful enough for my 32ohm headphones. My desktop's too noisy, especially for recording onto tape decks which I want to do sometimes. Also not entirely powerful enough from what I recall. A usb/bluetooth dac for my laptop/phone (standard phone usb-3.5mm adapter's not powerful enough either) and a toslink dac for my desktop solved all my problems. Toslink's an awesome nuclear option to buzz/noise because it's 100% isolated by virtue of being light. I also enjoy being able to boost the bass/mess with the EQ easily.

by snvzz 3y ago

LanternLight83 3y ago

I have a Topping MX3, initially loved how knob feels but it bothered me that the tactile feedback didn't actually line up with the adjustments... mostly use the remote now anyways, which is great

m463 3y ago

I like schiit: https://www.schiit.com https://www.schiit.com I currently use a Hel day to day: https://www.schiit.com/products/hel-plus https://www.schiit.com/products/hel-plus Lets me do work meetings with headphone+mic on one system via USB, or switch and listen to PCM audio via second input

snvzz 3y ago
hel is decent and portable. If portable isn't needed, about the same money buys that topping, with digital encoder for volume, higher specs and better measurements... but no mic input.

simondotau 3y ago

> because the audio outputs of all sorts of devices today simply are trash As a staunch objectivist audiophile, I empathise with this view. But there's also too much of an obsession with achieving levels of dynamic range precision far in excess of the best audio recordings. Not to mention far in excess of the best human ears — let alone the typical ears of an audiophile with time and cash to burn. Perhaps most damning of all, being far, far, far, far far in excess of the noise floor of most people's listening environments. So long as your DAC/amp gives you a solid 100 dB of dynamic range, it's time to put down your wallet and enjoy the content.

jwrallie 3y ago

The $199 is why most people will question if you really need it. My laptop costed me a little bit over that, so maybe there is something in the market that goes 80% of the way for about 20% of its price?

Dah00n 3y ago
This exactly. As a former PA/recording engineer I like good audio quality too, but it is hard to know which devices are worth it when most lists are made by people that always like the $200 (or $2000) option better than the $2, $20 and $199 option. I know for a fact from actually using audio equipment where good quality is needed that the expensive options are often not worth it at all, but more often than not swap a tiny (if any) bit of extra quality for a monstrous price hike and worse hardiness. Of course, I'm not saying it isn't worth it at all. That depends on one's budget and ears. But most lists see the expensive option as the best, while most peoples needs and ears have zero use for the expensive option. I'd go so far as saying you could get 95% of the way for 10% of the price.
- cwillu 3y ago
  It's like the old story: - one high quality capacitor: $1 - knowing where to put it: $799 [dark timeline: “knowing it doesn't matter where you put it: $12999”]
daggersandscars 3y ago
The USB-C headphone adaptors sold by Google / Apple / Samsung / etc are DAC + headphone amps. They're inexpensive (under $20, some under $10) and can have better components in them than a phone, laptop, etc. These should also work on laptops / desktops. Do some research first for your use case, but I suspect one can find one that will work for your machine + headphones. Soundguys has a review from October up on this topic: https://www.soundguys.com/best-usb-c-headphone-adapter-101302/ https://www.soundguys.com/best-usb-c-headphone-adapter-10130...
- alright2565 3y ago

dvh 3y ago

I bought $3 USB soundcard and it sounds better than onboard sound card. PC16046 V2.0 (just checked, it's $1.22 incl. shipping)

schwartzworld 3y ago
Where? I tried searching and not many hits. In fact, this comment was #4
aphrax 3y ago
My google skills are letting me down - do you have a link for this?
- squarefoot 3y ago
  PP probably refers to those very cheap USB soundcards, usually shaped like a dongle, with two mini jacks, sold pretty much everywhere. I tried a couple in the past (can't confirm if the chipset is the same) and they definitely sound better than expected from a device that cheap, however be aware that manufacturers often save on parts number or quality to reduce costs therefore it can be a hit and miss, with some of them making noises or offering inferior quality.
- o11c 3y ago
  A few I would make about this: * USB soundcards used to work on Android but in recent tests they failed again for some reason * Avoid any dongle that supports "special effects", "gaming", etc. Even if they can be disabled, it's such a pain. * Dynamically adding/removing soundcards can affect your computer's notion of "default microphone", particularly relevant for video chat. Some apps this takes effect immediately, some after quitting the app.
- dvh 3y ago
  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000598865391.html https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000598865391.html Works out of box in ubuntu, this is how I use it: https://files.catbox.moe/755gbr.jpg https://files.catbox.moe/755gbr.jpg
3y ago

jvanderbot 3y ago

I have some headphones with an in-line soundcard that you can reprogram with your choice of EQ or effects. Love em. But they were spendy and it lacks the hacker ethos that I respect in these posts.

potk6 3y ago

[flagged]

hedora 3y ago

I have mixed feelings about standalone USB dac/amps these days. Back in the early days of digital audio, they made a huge difference. For example, when the Cowon U2 portable audio player came out: https://www.cnet.com/reviews/cowon-iaudio-u2-review/ https://www.cnet.com/reviews/cowon-iaudio-u2-review/ The iPod basically couldn't output bass because their dac couldn't maintain anything close to a square wave. (There used to be online comparisons of this thing with the iPod, similar to what you linked.) However, that was 20 years ago, and it hit -95db of hiss, 20-20khz frequency response, with way more power than is needed for in-ear monitors (which is my use case). Apple ended up shipping an iPod with a non-terrible DAC the next year (I think the touch was the first one? Can't remember). Anyway, now you kind of have to go off the beaten path to find consumer stuff that's perceptibly worse than ideal. In particular, you can get a USB-C -> headphone dongle from apple that's actually a decent DAC for $9 (look at the THD graph. They use the $9 Apple as the cutoff between "yellow" and "green"): https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-and-measurements-of-spectra-x-dac-amp.6861/ https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/r... These days, if you're getting noticeably bad performance out of your laptop DAC, it's probably a shielding or grounding issue. The standalone USB DAC will fix that, but only if it's externally powered + grounded (or if you get lucky with how your laptop is wired / shielded), but so would bluetooth (which even supports lossless audio as of 2021).

jameshart 3y ago
> couldn't output bass because their dac couldn't maintain anything close to a square wave Isn't the defining characteristic of a square wave the fact accurate reproduction of it requires the ability to produce high frequencies? Why would that be particularly problematic for bass?
- heyoni 3y ago
  Because bass is low frequencies I imagine.
jimmaswell 3y ago
My ~2021 laptop is ok with noise but isn't powerful enough for my 32ohm headphones. My desktop's too noisy, especially for recording onto tape decks which I want to do sometimes. Also not entirely powerful enough from what I recall. A usb/bluetooth dac for my laptop/phone (standard phone usb-3.5mm adapter's not powerful enough either) and a toslink dac for my desktop solved all my problems. Toslink's an awesome nuclear option to buzz/noise because it's 100% isolated by virtue of being light. I also enjoy being able to boost the bass/mess with the EQ easily.