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> Their chips are second to none (or perhaps tied for first, depending on who you ask). No. They're definitely behind AMD. AMD has significantly better power e

> Their chips are second to none (or perhaps tied for first, depending on who you ask). No. They're definitely behind AMD. AMD has significantly better power efficiency[1], better performance in gaming for most of the titles[2], and vastly more cores and better multithreaded performance (with Threadrippers[3]). [1]: https://gamersnexus.net/megacharts/cpu-power https://gamersnexus.net/megacharts/cpu-power [2]: https://gamersnexus.net/cpus/intels-300w-core-i9-14900k-cpu-review-benchmarks-gaming-power https://gamersnexus.net/cpus/intels-300w-core-i9-14900k-cpu-... [3]: https://gamersnexus.net/cpus/best-cpus-2023-intel-vs-amd-gaming-video-editing-budget-biggest-disappointment#best-hedt https://gamersnexus.net/cpus/best-cpus-2023-intel-vs-amd-gam...

kyrra 3y ago
I would argue that AMD is not the reason they are more power efficient, it's TSMC. Intel bet on a fabrication process that did not succeed. I will bet in the next 2 years Intel will be on par with AMD again.
- soulbadguy 3y ago
  > I would argue that AMD is not the reason they are more power efficient, it's TSMC. Why ?
  - allie1 3y ago
    Because the areas where Intel stumbled wasn’t design, it was their manufacturing being behind, something tsmc does for AMD.
    - isthatafact 3y ago
      But it was also design where Intel failed to innovate for many years. For example, the chiplet approach that AMD embraced allowed AMD to put together far more powerful CPUs, i.e. with more cores and at a competitive price, than Intel could.
jvanderbot 3y ago
> Based on the numbers we've given you, from our data, and the prices we have today, the decisions for the most part are pretty clear: The best gaming CPU is the 7800X3D (that's an objective fact), the most efficient part is the 7980X, the 5800X3D is the best upgrade path, and Intel makes the strongest showing in the i5-13600K or 14600K (whichever is cheaper) for a balanced build, or the 12100F for an ultra-budget build. Compare to toms' hardware 2023 listing earlier in the year. https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-cpus,3986.html https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-cpus,3986.html Category | Winner | Alternate Overall Best CPU for Gaming: Intel Core i5-13400 (Buy) [More] AMD Ryzen 5 7600 (Buy) | Ryzen 5 5600X3D High Performance Value Best CPU for Gaming: AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D (Buy) [More] Intel Core i7-14700K (Buy) | Ryzen 7 5800X3D (Buy) Highest Performance Best CPU for Gaming: AMD Ryzen 9 7950X3D (Buy) [More] Intel Core i9-13900K (Buy) Mid-Range Best CPU for Gaming: Intel Core i5-13600K (Buy) [More] AMD Ryzen 5 7600X (Buy) Budget Best CPU for Gaming: Intel Core i3-12100F (Buy) [More] AMD Ryzen 5 5600 (Buy) Entry-Level Best CPU for Gaming: AMD Ryzen 5 5600G (Buy) (summarizing: Intel best CPU, Best mid and budget entries, so winner in 3/5 categories. And what does it mean to give AMD "Best high performance" and "Highest performance?"). This is a neck-and-neck race, with AMD a fan favorite, and year over year changes in leadership. No way is Intel out of this as a viable competitor of equal-ish standing. I don't mean to denegrate AMD in my original post, but I do mean to say that Intel is still producing top-tier results. https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-and-intel-cpu-market-share-report-recovery-looms-on-the-horizon https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-and-intel-cpu-market-s... In particular, Intel still has a 5x lead on AMD in server market, which, of course, is a pretty big market.
- soulbadguy 3y ago
  > This is a neck-and-neck race, with AMD a fan favorite, and year over year changes in leadership. > (summarizing: Intel best CPU, Best mid and budget entries, so winner in 3/5 categories. And what does it mean to give AMD "Best high performance" and "Highest performance?"). Intel as much more brand recognition than AMD. So calling AMD fan favorite is kinda strange to me. There are only two x86-64 chip designer right now, and from a pure market strategy it doesn't make sense for AMD to offer much more value to customer than what they can get from the only competition in town. If you want to really understand how intel is strugling you have to did into the execution speed of both companies, the profit margin on each SKU etc... etc... Intel is only neck and neck with AMD if you don't look at things like power efficiency and how much money they are actually making per chip. > In particular, Intel still has a 5x lead on AMD in server market, which, of course, is a pretty big market. This a function of market inertia more than anything. From a technical perspective AMD Zen 4 workstation and server offering seem to be much better these days.
J_Shelby_J 3y ago
I’ve been on the extreme of maxing out fps in games for a decade. Gamersnexus is great! But they and the other YouTube benchmarkers don’t tell the whole story. when you are playing games that are bottlenecked by single thread performance single core performance and therefore memory speed becomes important. This is very difficult to benchmark as most of those games where it matters (CoD warzone) don’t have an easy way to benchmark. When I was testing my OC I literally would change the ram frequency in the bios, and drop into a pubg match, and screen record my fps and manually add it to a spreadsheet. So take those benchmarks and then add some performance gains from memory overclocking that I (and others) been able to get meaningful gains in fps beyond just overclocking the cpu. 5-10% more fps is not amazing, but it’s definitely worth it to me for games like warzone or valorant. AMD’s support for high end ram has always lagged. Happy to use amd for non-gaming, but if you’re trying to build “the best gaming rig” I’m not sure AMD can take that crown. And until people are willing to benchmark single threaded bottleneck games like warzone with different ram speeds, I doubt this argument will be settled.
- Tuna-Fish 3y ago
  This was true until X3D. Only very few titles benefit from fast memory over fitting ~all the memory a typical game accesses in a single frame into screaming fast L3.
- smolder 3y ago
  Memory speed is much less relevant when you have a giant L3 due to 3D stacked cache. I don't think you're trying to mislead anyone, but I'm pretty skeptical that you're getting 5-10% more than an X3D, even with memory overclocking, given how close the non-3D stacked AMD chips get to Intel here. [0] The gap between those non-3D cache chips and the newer 3D-cache ones is generally very big for games because they touch huge amounts of data every frame and thrash memory. [0] https://www.techspot.com/article/2579-cod-warzone-2-benchmark/ https://www.techspot.com/article/2579-cod-warzone-2-benchmar...

kyrra 3y ago

I would argue that AMD is not the reason they are more power efficient, it's TSMC. Intel bet on a fabrication process that did not succeed. I will bet in the next 2 years Intel will be on par with AMD again.

soulbadguy 3y ago
> I would argue that AMD is not the reason they are more power efficient, it's TSMC. Why ?
- allie1 3y ago
  Because the areas where Intel stumbled wasn’t design, it was their manufacturing being behind, something tsmc does for AMD.
  - isthatafact 3y ago
    But it was also design where Intel failed to innovate for many years. For example, the chiplet approach that AMD embraced allowed AMD to put together far more powerful CPUs, i.e. with more cores and at a competitive price, than Intel could.

jvanderbot 3y ago

> Based on the numbers we've given you, from our data, and the prices we have today, the decisions for the most part are pretty clear: The best gaming CPU is the 7800X3D (that's an objective fact), the most efficient part is the 7980X, the 5800X3D is the best upgrade path, and Intel makes the strongest showing in the i5-13600K or 14600K (whichever is cheaper) for a balanced build, or the 12100F for an ultra-budget build. Compare to toms' hardware 2023 listing earlier in the year. https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-cpus,3986.html https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-cpus,3986.html Category | Winner | Alternate Overall Best CPU for Gaming: Intel Core i5-13400 (Buy) [More] AMD Ryzen 5 7600 (Buy) | Ryzen 5 5600X3D High Performance Value Best CPU for Gaming: AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D (Buy) [More] Intel Core i7-14700K (Buy) | Ryzen 7 5800X3D (Buy) Highest Performance Best CPU for Gaming: AMD Ryzen 9 7950X3D (Buy) [More] Intel Core i9-13900K (Buy) Mid-Range Best CPU for Gaming: Intel Core i5-13600K (Buy) [More] AMD Ryzen 5 7600X (Buy) Budget Best CPU for Gaming: Intel Core i3-12100F (Buy) [More] AMD Ryzen 5 5600 (Buy) Entry-Level Best CPU for Gaming: AMD Ryzen 5 5600G (Buy) (summarizing: Intel best CPU, Best mid and budget entries, so winner in 3/5 categories. And what does it mean to give AMD "Best high performance" and "Highest performance?"). This is a neck-and-neck race, with AMD a fan favorite, and year over year changes in leadership. No way is Intel out of this as a viable competitor of equal-ish standing. I don't mean to denegrate AMD in my original post, but I do mean to say that Intel is still producing top-tier results. https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-and-intel-cpu-market-share-report-recovery-looms-on-the-horizon https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-and-intel-cpu-market-s... In particular, Intel still has a 5x lead on AMD in server market, which, of course, is a pretty big market.

soulbadguy 3y ago
> This is a neck-and-neck race, with AMD a fan favorite, and year over year changes in leadership. > (summarizing: Intel best CPU, Best mid and budget entries, so winner in 3/5 categories. And what does it mean to give AMD "Best high performance" and "Highest performance?"). Intel as much more brand recognition than AMD. So calling AMD fan favorite is kinda strange to me. There are only two x86-64 chip designer right now, and from a pure market strategy it doesn't make sense for AMD to offer much more value to customer than what they can get from the only competition in town. If you want to really understand how intel is strugling you have to did into the execution speed of both companies, the profit margin on each SKU etc... etc... Intel is only neck and neck with AMD if you don't look at things like power efficiency and how much money they are actually making per chip. > In particular, Intel still has a 5x lead on AMD in server market, which, of course, is a pretty big market. This a function of market inertia more than anything. From a technical perspective AMD Zen 4 workstation and server offering seem to be much better these days.

J_Shelby_J 3y ago

I’ve been on the extreme of maxing out fps in games for a decade. Gamersnexus is great! But they and the other YouTube benchmarkers don’t tell the whole story. when you are playing games that are bottlenecked by single thread performance single core performance and therefore memory speed becomes important. This is very difficult to benchmark as most of those games where it matters (CoD warzone) don’t have an easy way to benchmark. When I was testing my OC I literally would change the ram frequency in the bios, and drop into a pubg match, and screen record my fps and manually add it to a spreadsheet. So take those benchmarks and then add some performance gains from memory overclocking that I (and others) been able to get meaningful gains in fps beyond just overclocking the cpu. 5-10% more fps is not amazing, but it’s definitely worth it to me for games like warzone or valorant. AMD’s support for high end ram has always lagged. Happy to use amd for non-gaming, but if you’re trying to build “the best gaming rig” I’m not sure AMD can take that crown. And until people are willing to benchmark single threaded bottleneck games like warzone with different ram speeds, I doubt this argument will be settled.

Tuna-Fish 3y ago
This was true until X3D. Only very few titles benefit from fast memory over fitting ~all the memory a typical game accesses in a single frame into screaming fast L3.
smolder 3y ago
Memory speed is much less relevant when you have a giant L3 due to 3D stacked cache. I don't think you're trying to mislead anyone, but I'm pretty skeptical that you're getting 5-10% more than an X3D, even with memory overclocking, given how close the non-3D stacked AMD chips get to Intel here. [0] The gap between those non-3D cache chips and the newer 3D-cache ones is generally very big for games because they touch huge amounts of data every frame and thrash memory. [0] https://www.techspot.com/article/2579-cod-warzone-2-benchmark/ https://www.techspot.com/article/2579-cod-warzone-2-benchmar...