4 ms·

I wager there is literally zero chance that Apple will let you have any freedom in the model used, and there's zero chance that you'll be using anything except

I wager there is literally zero chance that Apple will let you have any freedom in the model used, and there's zero chance that you'll be using anything except the Siri_Model unless you hack your iDevice. Just like there is 1 app store and 1 assistant, Apple will fight forcefully to make sure there is 1 AI model.

eitland 3y ago
EU is already demanding that Apple allows more app stores, isn't it?
- criley2 3y ago
  Well, then if you can convince the EU to force Apple to allow uncensored models that will happily teach you how to make bombs and all manner of things like that, then you can have those models on your iDevice. Not sure the EU is going to jump on board that kind of free speech though.
  - dzhiurgis 3y ago
    Can you allow uncensored models but they need to be wrapped around Apple's on-device censorship firewall? Or is there a common API for llm constitution (or however it is called)?
    - MBCook 3y ago
      Apple already has the CoreML framework anyone can use to do on device processing. They even have tools to help convert things into the format the iPhone uses. As others have pointed out you can already find apps with public models on the Apple App Store. They’re not doing anything to censor any of this.
  - danogentili 3y ago
    You could make the same (unconvincing) argument for apps on third-party stores, teaching the same dangerous things or doing even worse things like (gasp) allowing pornography :P
    - criley2 3y ago
      Generally speaking, Apple has maintained rigid control over apps and have banned everything you mentioned. If EU app stores fill up with pornography and terrorism apps, you can imagine their move will be decried as a debacle and used by Apple to demonstrate how the EU failed by forcing them to open up
      - danogentili 3y ago
        If EU app stores fill up with pornography and terrorism apps, that will be a problem of the companies running the stores, not Apple's problem. Apple has no right to decide what users do with the hardware they sell.
        theshrike79 3y ago
        Can we start expanding this argumentation to Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo too? I really want to start playing hardcore porn games on my PS5 as soon as possible. Sony has no right to decide what I do with my hardware, right?
        danogentili 3y ago
        > Can we start expanding this argumentation to Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo too? Absolutely. > Sony has no right to decide what I do with my hardware, right? That is correct.
        orangecat 3y ago
        Can we start expanding this argumentation to Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo too? Sure. I really want to start playing hardcore porn games on my PS5 as soon as possible. And if somebody figures out how to do that, they should be able to. Sony has no right to decide what I do with my hardware, right? Pretty much, yes.
        theshrike79 3y ago
        We don't need to "figure it out". We need the EU to force the big three console manufacturers to allow 3rd party stores in their consoles.
  - ForkMeOnTinder 3y ago
    [flagged]
  - nerdbert 3y ago
    They already allow uncensored web browsers that will happily open up web pages about making bombs.
drexlspivey 3y ago
Is Apple going to ship these LLMs as part of the OS? I expect app developers to bundle them in their apps. Also Llama has a specific license clause that it’s available to anyone except Apple and Google
- vinni2 3y ago
  you can already run llms on iphone locally https://llm.mlc.ai/ https://llm.mlc.ai/
- criley2 3y ago
  I find it very difficult to believe that Apple is going to incorporate AI hardware into their device and then open it up to everyone freely. That would be very off brand. Even in the browser space Apple famously forced all competing browsers to use Apple Webkit as their engine. They certainly have history around lockdown and lock-in.
  - williamcotton 3y ago
    They don’t have to open it up freely. They could choose to add an API with a chat completion type of interface, whisper-like, etc. Nothing would need to change in the existing terms and conditions with developers: we only accept binaries that use our official APIs.
  - nerdbert 3y ago
    > I find it very difficult to believe that Apple is going to incorporate AI hardware into their device and then open it up to everyone freely. The Core ML API for using the neural processing features of Apple's chips has been in there for a while and plenty of developers are using it.
  - dagmx 3y ago
    The CoreML APIs let you make use of the neural engine that’s built in. It doesn’t benefit Apple to restrict access to silicon. https://developer.apple.com/documentation/coreml https://developer.apple.com/documentation/coreml
vimy 3y ago
Right now there are already local LLM apps with uncensored models in the app store.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- Someone 3y ago
  I think there are two things that you can’t do on iOS: - have “Hey Siri” send audio to your code - have your code reliably listen in to the microphone so that your code can listen for its own trigger phrase (AFAIK you can start an audio recording session, and have that continue while your app is in the background, but that requires users to open your app first. I also am not sure that recording will reliably survive device sleep and automatic app shutdown because of memory pressure) I think #1 is fine. It doesn’t seem fair to me that Apple should be forced to allow other developers link “Hey Siri” to their voice assistant because that assistant may be detrimental to the value of the “Hey Siri” mark or Apple’s values, for example because it is racist, sexist, homophobic, etc. The second IMO isn’t fine, but I can see Apple argue they are in their rights to have some control over how that rigger phrase gets detected. “Hey Siri” uses a small on-device network specifically trained for that, in order to conserve battery life (https://machinelearning.apple.com/research/hey-siri https://machinelearning.apple.com/research/hey-siri), and they may argue having good battery life is essential to their brand.
roughly 3y ago
At least they'll let you say "duck" now.

eitland 3y ago

EU is already demanding that Apple allows more app stores, isn't it?

criley2 3y ago
Well, then if you can convince the EU to force Apple to allow uncensored models that will happily teach you how to make bombs and all manner of things like that, then you can have those models on your iDevice. Not sure the EU is going to jump on board that kind of free speech though.
- dzhiurgis 3y ago
  Can you allow uncensored models but they need to be wrapped around Apple's on-device censorship firewall? Or is there a common API for llm constitution (or however it is called)?
  - MBCook 3y ago
    Apple already has the CoreML framework anyone can use to do on device processing. They even have tools to help convert things into the format the iPhone uses. As others have pointed out you can already find apps with public models on the Apple App Store. They’re not doing anything to censor any of this.
- danogentili 3y ago
  You could make the same (unconvincing) argument for apps on third-party stores, teaching the same dangerous things or doing even worse things like (gasp) allowing pornography :P
  - criley2 3y ago
    Generally speaking, Apple has maintained rigid control over apps and have banned everything you mentioned. If EU app stores fill up with pornography and terrorism apps, you can imagine their move will be decried as a debacle and used by Apple to demonstrate how the EU failed by forcing them to open up
    - danogentili 3y ago
      If EU app stores fill up with pornography and terrorism apps, that will be a problem of the companies running the stores, not Apple's problem. Apple has no right to decide what users do with the hardware they sell.
      - theshrike79 3y ago
        Can we start expanding this argumentation to Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo too? I really want to start playing hardcore porn games on my PS5 as soon as possible. Sony has no right to decide what I do with my hardware, right?
        danogentili 3y ago
        > Can we start expanding this argumentation to Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo too? Absolutely. > Sony has no right to decide what I do with my hardware, right? That is correct.
        orangecat 3y ago
        Can we start expanding this argumentation to Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo too? Sure. I really want to start playing hardcore porn games on my PS5 as soon as possible. And if somebody figures out how to do that, they should be able to. Sony has no right to decide what I do with my hardware, right? Pretty much, yes.
        theshrike79 3y ago
        We don't need to "figure it out". We need the EU to force the big three console manufacturers to allow 3rd party stores in their consoles.
- ForkMeOnTinder 3y ago
  [flagged]
- nerdbert 3y ago
  They already allow uncensored web browsers that will happily open up web pages about making bombs.

drexlspivey 3y ago

Is Apple going to ship these LLMs as part of the OS? I expect app developers to bundle them in their apps. Also Llama has a specific license clause that it’s available to anyone except Apple and Google

vinni2 3y ago
you can already run llms on iphone locally https://llm.mlc.ai/ https://llm.mlc.ai/
criley2 3y ago
I find it very difficult to believe that Apple is going to incorporate AI hardware into their device and then open it up to everyone freely. That would be very off brand. Even in the browser space Apple famously forced all competing browsers to use Apple Webkit as their engine. They certainly have history around lockdown and lock-in.
- williamcotton 3y ago
  They don’t have to open it up freely. They could choose to add an API with a chat completion type of interface, whisper-like, etc. Nothing would need to change in the existing terms and conditions with developers: we only accept binaries that use our official APIs.
- nerdbert 3y ago
  > I find it very difficult to believe that Apple is going to incorporate AI hardware into their device and then open it up to everyone freely. The Core ML API for using the neural processing features of Apple's chips has been in there for a while and plenty of developers are using it.
- dagmx 3y ago
  The CoreML APIs let you make use of the neural engine that’s built in. It doesn’t benefit Apple to restrict access to silicon. https://developer.apple.com/documentation/coreml https://developer.apple.com/documentation/coreml

vimy 3y ago

Right now there are already local LLM apps with uncensored models in the app store.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
Someone 3y ago
I think there are two things that you can’t do on iOS: - have “Hey Siri” send audio to your code - have your code reliably listen in to the microphone so that your code can listen for its own trigger phrase (AFAIK you can start an audio recording session, and have that continue while your app is in the background, but that requires users to open your app first. I also am not sure that recording will reliably survive device sleep and automatic app shutdown because of memory pressure) I think #1 is fine. It doesn’t seem fair to me that Apple should be forced to allow other developers link “Hey Siri” to their voice assistant because that assistant may be detrimental to the value of the “Hey Siri” mark or Apple’s values, for example because it is racist, sexist, homophobic, etc. The second IMO isn’t fine, but I can see Apple argue they are in their rights to have some control over how that rigger phrase gets detected. “Hey Siri” uses a small on-device network specifically trained for that, in order to conserve battery life (https://machinelearning.apple.com/research/hey-siri https://machinelearning.apple.com/research/hey-siri), and they may argue having good battery life is essential to their brand.

roughly 3y ago

At least they'll let you say "duck" now.