5 ms·

autism doesn't mean he doesn't have emotions

by aszantu 3y ago

6stringmerc 3y ago
A valid diagnosis of one condition doesn’t preclude a litany of seriously dangerous other ones, either, correct?
- rainonmoon 3y ago
  You might as well say "He has psoriasis, he might also be an axe murderer." No, one fact doesn't preclude the existence of other facts, very good. That doesn't mean that making stigmatising connections is reasonable.
  - Dx5IQ 3y ago
    There was no connection made, GP merely pointed out their observation based on what he has done so far
    - candiodari 3y ago
      He's a kid that "found" some pictures of an upcoming game, using dodgy means. But these pictures were publicly accessible, he didn't deceive an actual human to get them. Making them hidden, but public was a mistake by the company. The real reason this happens is that the police doesn't understand, wants to punish the kid ... and youth services has lobbied so that locking up minors DOES NOT REQUIRE PROOF at trial, does not even require an actual accusation of a crime, in fact the kid gets none of the normal legal protections (because this is a 6 month prison sentence, in that the kid gets locked up, and could be an 18 month prison sentence) During this time, the kid will be denied school, denied access to internet, books, friends, most of his family, he will be physically locked up (sometimes in solitary, although they get regularly accused of locking up autistic individuals for weeks/months). Oh and there is CONSTANT violence in these places. But fundamentally this happens because there's no fair trial for minors. Why not? Youth "protection" keeps complaining that with the actual legal rights they can't do their job (or arguably even human rights, schooling, not being locked up unless convicted with full legal rights (not the case here), not locking up long times in solitary unless absolutely unavoidable (ie. NOT because of lack of funds and therefore no personnel for supervision), ...) A fair trial against this kid would have failed since he was caught by illegal means (the police committed a crime to lure him into a trap, which is NOT legal, and frankly totally immoral). I hope if you do security related work, remember this case. If you expose a security vulnerability, and get offered a job, there's now many examples of that job being an excuse to get you thrown into prison for years. Oh, and DESPITE this being totally illegal for the police to do. Youth services can't do their job with normal legal rights for minors, because minors talk, and are aware with youth services offers (getting locked up without school, without friends/family, with constant punishment, and then at the end of it getting kicked into the street without any help). Although Youth Services lies about this to kids, it tends to be well known in the cities and "results in a lack of cooperation" (translation: kids, correctly, reason that they're better off abused than helped by Youth services). Oh and it doesn't help. Especially because the "kicked to the street" part, especially kids that don't have parental support for some reason, immediately turn to crime. And, of course, after a place like this, they don't want to be helped by anyone and hate the police.
      - 127361 3y ago
        The overall treatment of children, especially teenagers, in society is absolutely shocking. Literally they are like slaves. As a child, the family can be the single most tyrannical thing we will ever experience in our lifetimes. It can be a mini totalitarian dictatorship if you are unlucky to have bad parents. In 100-200 years time from now people will be talking about this, just as we look back to barbaric times in the past now.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
rad_gruchalski 3y ago
Empathy, not emotions. Empathy: the ability to understand and share the feelings of another.
- imtringued 3y ago
  I don't know about you, but if I said someone doesn't have empathy I would think that I'm the one lacking it, since I can't possibly imagine understanding that person or their feelings.
  - rad_gruchalski 3y ago
    I feel empathetic to you.
- cassianoleal 3y ago
  Autism doesn't preclude empathy at all. In fact, I would say it augments it once the other person's feelings are understood. What's generally lacking is realising the other is feeling in a certain way until it's explained to them or they have otherwise rationalised that feeling. Which, relatively ironically, will never be enough to make a neurotypical person feel empathy.
  - rad_gruchalski 3y ago
    I don’t understand why you explain this to me. I just answered empty vs emotion. I am not discussing anything.
squarefoot 3y ago
He may have emotions but certainly he doesn't care about those of others and the damage he can provoke. He actually wants to continue to be a criminal. FTA: A mental health assessment used as part of the sentencing hearing said he "continued to express the intent to return to cyber-crime as soon as possible. He is highly motivated." The guy needs help because he's autistic, and watched closely because he's also a sociopath.
- BobaFloutist 3y ago
  Plenty of people want to commit crimes that aren't sociopaths.
  - RecycledEle 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - TalEs 3y ago
      Ah, the classic debate of whether biologically a clump of cells constitute an entire person or "victim", or is it something we are made to believe due to our teachings/religious beliefs. Out of the biggest global religions, 2 out of the 3 Abrahamic religions allow abortions, when necessary and if the mother is at risk. By that logic, abortion is allowed and should be done whenever necessary for the health of the mother. Allowing women to apply their rights to their own health does not make our society a majority of sociopaths. I am not saying to use abortion for irresponsible actions, but abortion in it's self, is not a sociopathic activity.
      - RecycledEle 3y ago
        > allow abortions, when necessary and if the mother is at risk I would like to know if there is a case where the baby is viable where it's necessary to kill the baby and remove the dead baby rather than removing a living baby? I am concerned that if you give me a problem to solve (a sick pregnant woman) I might remove one complicating factor (the baby) to simplify my work load. I know in Texas, during the era of Roe v. Wade, if a doctor recommended an abortion saying the baby was non-viable and was wrong, there was no liability on the doctor. If the doctor recommended against abortion, and the baby was in the least bit deformed, the doctor could be held liable for millions of dollars. This lead to a lot of pro-kill-the-baby bias.
mathgradthrow 3y ago
"empathy impairment" is a fundamental feature of autism. It's not stigma. It'a not universal, but it is a major part of why it's a disorder in the first place.
- RecycledEle 3y ago
  As someone with autism, I lack empathy for (most) fake situations. Once I realized therapists and their ilk were lying about sad stories, I stopped having empathy for those sad situations. Ditto for fake news stories. Only mentally unfit people can pass a therapist's tests and be empathetic for people they know do not exist.
  - FireInsight 3y ago
    I'm not saying what you're saying is invalid, but I do have empathy for people that don't exist. It's called fiction and I find it quite enjoyable.
    - mikhael28 3y ago
      Oof, hopethis makes parent think.
      - ithkuil 3y ago
        Let's flip this around: think about what you just said. you seem to be implying that feeling empathy for characters in work of fiction is clearly "normal" if somebody doesn't think that way it should give them pause. What you said may be construed as "hey you freak, if you only think for a moment you'll obviously notice that it's perfectly normal to feel empathy for fictional people, after all story telling is such a fundamental human feature that if you're not feeling that way there must be something wrong with you or at the very least it's you're fault because you're not thinking hard enough about that". Of course, I'm not saying you actually believe that or accuse GP of that, but words and tone matters and can hurt. Think about that
ghusto 3y ago
No, but empathy is something autistic people famously struggle with
- aszantu 3y ago
  is it the same for male and female autists?

autism doesn't mean he doesn't have emotions

6stringmerc 3y ago

A valid diagnosis of one condition doesn’t preclude a litany of seriously dangerous other ones, either, correct?

rainonmoon 3y ago
You might as well say "He has psoriasis, he might also be an axe murderer." No, one fact doesn't preclude the existence of other facts, very good. That doesn't mean that making stigmatising connections is reasonable.
- Dx5IQ 3y ago
  There was no connection made, GP merely pointed out their observation based on what he has done so far
  - candiodari 3y ago
    He's a kid that "found" some pictures of an upcoming game, using dodgy means. But these pictures were publicly accessible, he didn't deceive an actual human to get them. Making them hidden, but public was a mistake by the company. The real reason this happens is that the police doesn't understand, wants to punish the kid ... and youth services has lobbied so that locking up minors DOES NOT REQUIRE PROOF at trial, does not even require an actual accusation of a crime, in fact the kid gets none of the normal legal protections (because this is a 6 month prison sentence, in that the kid gets locked up, and could be an 18 month prison sentence) During this time, the kid will be denied school, denied access to internet, books, friends, most of his family, he will be physically locked up (sometimes in solitary, although they get regularly accused of locking up autistic individuals for weeks/months). Oh and there is CONSTANT violence in these places. But fundamentally this happens because there's no fair trial for minors. Why not? Youth "protection" keeps complaining that with the actual legal rights they can't do their job (or arguably even human rights, schooling, not being locked up unless convicted with full legal rights (not the case here), not locking up long times in solitary unless absolutely unavoidable (ie. NOT because of lack of funds and therefore no personnel for supervision), ...) A fair trial against this kid would have failed since he was caught by illegal means (the police committed a crime to lure him into a trap, which is NOT legal, and frankly totally immoral). I hope if you do security related work, remember this case. If you expose a security vulnerability, and get offered a job, there's now many examples of that job being an excuse to get you thrown into prison for years. Oh, and DESPITE this being totally illegal for the police to do. Youth services can't do their job with normal legal rights for minors, because minors talk, and are aware with youth services offers (getting locked up without school, without friends/family, with constant punishment, and then at the end of it getting kicked into the street without any help). Although Youth Services lies about this to kids, it tends to be well known in the cities and "results in a lack of cooperation" (translation: kids, correctly, reason that they're better off abused than helped by Youth services). Oh and it doesn't help. Especially because the "kicked to the street" part, especially kids that don't have parental support for some reason, immediately turn to crime. And, of course, after a place like this, they don't want to be helped by anyone and hate the police.
    - 127361 3y ago
      The overall treatment of children, especially teenagers, in society is absolutely shocking. Literally they are like slaves. As a child, the family can be the single most tyrannical thing we will ever experience in our lifetimes. It can be a mini totalitarian dictatorship if you are unlucky to have bad parents. In 100-200 years time from now people will be talking about this, just as we look back to barbaric times in the past now.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

rad_gruchalski 3y ago

Empathy, not emotions. Empathy: the ability to understand and share the feelings of another.

imtringued 3y ago
I don't know about you, but if I said someone doesn't have empathy I would think that I'm the one lacking it, since I can't possibly imagine understanding that person or their feelings.
- rad_gruchalski 3y ago
  I feel empathetic to you.
cassianoleal 3y ago
Autism doesn't preclude empathy at all. In fact, I would say it augments it once the other person's feelings are understood. What's generally lacking is realising the other is feeling in a certain way until it's explained to them or they have otherwise rationalised that feeling. Which, relatively ironically, will never be enough to make a neurotypical person feel empathy.
- rad_gruchalski 3y ago
  I don’t understand why you explain this to me. I just answered empty vs emotion. I am not discussing anything.

squarefoot 3y ago

He may have emotions but certainly he doesn't care about those of others and the damage he can provoke. He actually wants to continue to be a criminal. FTA: A mental health assessment used as part of the sentencing hearing said he "continued to express the intent to return to cyber-crime as soon as possible. He is highly motivated." The guy needs help because he's autistic, and watched closely because he's also a sociopath.

BobaFloutist 3y ago
Plenty of people want to commit crimes that aren't sociopaths.
- RecycledEle 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - TalEs 3y ago
    Ah, the classic debate of whether biologically a clump of cells constitute an entire person or "victim", or is it something we are made to believe due to our teachings/religious beliefs. Out of the biggest global religions, 2 out of the 3 Abrahamic religions allow abortions, when necessary and if the mother is at risk. By that logic, abortion is allowed and should be done whenever necessary for the health of the mother. Allowing women to apply their rights to their own health does not make our society a majority of sociopaths. I am not saying to use abortion for irresponsible actions, but abortion in it's self, is not a sociopathic activity.
    - RecycledEle 3y ago
      > allow abortions, when necessary and if the mother is at risk I would like to know if there is a case where the baby is viable where it's necessary to kill the baby and remove the dead baby rather than removing a living baby? I am concerned that if you give me a problem to solve (a sick pregnant woman) I might remove one complicating factor (the baby) to simplify my work load. I know in Texas, during the era of Roe v. Wade, if a doctor recommended an abortion saying the baby was non-viable and was wrong, there was no liability on the doctor. If the doctor recommended against abortion, and the baby was in the least bit deformed, the doctor could be held liable for millions of dollars. This lead to a lot of pro-kill-the-baby bias.

mathgradthrow 3y ago

"empathy impairment" is a fundamental feature of autism. It's not stigma. It'a not universal, but it is a major part of why it's a disorder in the first place.

RecycledEle 3y ago
As someone with autism, I lack empathy for (most) fake situations. Once I realized therapists and their ilk were lying about sad stories, I stopped having empathy for those sad situations. Ditto for fake news stories. Only mentally unfit people can pass a therapist's tests and be empathetic for people they know do not exist.
- FireInsight 3y ago
  I'm not saying what you're saying is invalid, but I do have empathy for people that don't exist. It's called fiction and I find it quite enjoyable.
  - mikhael28 3y ago
    Oof, hopethis makes parent think.
    - ithkuil 3y ago
      Let's flip this around: think about what you just said. you seem to be implying that feeling empathy for characters in work of fiction is clearly "normal" if somebody doesn't think that way it should give them pause. What you said may be construed as "hey you freak, if you only think for a moment you'll obviously notice that it's perfectly normal to feel empathy for fictional people, after all story telling is such a fundamental human feature that if you're not feeling that way there must be something wrong with you or at the very least it's you're fault because you're not thinking hard enough about that". Of course, I'm not saying you actually believe that or accuse GP of that, but words and tone matters and can hurt. Think about that

ghusto 3y ago

No, but empathy is something autistic people famously struggle with

aszantu 3y ago
is it the same for male and female autists?