5 ms·

Gyms are notorious for sending unpaid dues to debt collection. Even if the designated cancellation process ought to be illegal, you still have to end the contra

Gyms are notorious for sending unpaid dues to debt collection. Even if the designated cancellation process ought to be illegal, you still have to end the contract to end your legal obligations.

akomtu 3y ago
But there is no contract to begin with. Anyone can enter your credit card number on a LA Fitness website.
- AlotOfReading 3y ago
  There's still a contract between LA fitness and the person stealing your identity. The debt just happens to get incorrectly assigned to you for collections because we allow "identity theft" to exist. Separate issue.
  - sangnoir 3y ago
    > There's still a contract between LA fitness and the person stealing your identity There's a contract between LA fitness and someone commiting fraud with my CC. My identity can't be stolen because I still have it - LA Fitness has been defrauded by a 3rd party and they shouldn't involve me in their mess.
    - ceejayoz 3y ago
      If it's real fraud, sure. If not, that might work in the first month or two. If you've been going for nine months, good luck. They'll pull up all the photos they automatically took of you entering the doors to check in.
- xg15 3y ago
  If you sign up and immediately cancel, maybe. But if you actually visited the gym a few times and made use of their service, I doubt any judge would follow that logic.
  - akomtu 3y ago
    LA Fitness won't stand a chance in a court. You'd show the judge a email demanding to cancel the subscription, and LAF will show a scammy "terms of service" implying you can't easily cancel. That's why scammy companies like this want binding arbitration and try to avoid any real scrutiny.
    - xg15 3y ago
      I'm absolutely with you that their games around cancelling are beyond shitty and hopefully illegal - but my point was that those are two orthogonal legal matters and it's not a good idea to start playing games of your own if you suspect the other to do so. In this case, your argument was that you never had a contract with them in the first place. But this would be hard to believe if you actually used their services. Your cancellation email would undermine this argument even more, as you don't request cancellation if you don't have a contract. So a court could perfectly well decide that the gym acted in breach of the law by making it deliberately hard to cancel, but that you acted in breach of the law too by stopping payment without even trying to cancel. If you argue that you made your best effort to cancel, as documented by the email, that would be a more convincing argument I think (not a lawyer tho) but that's a different argument than claiming there never was a contract at all.
      - akomtu 3y ago
        My email would say that I'm no longer visiting the gym and they must stop charging my card, and to avoid confusion, I'm stopping the payments on my end. I actually did exactly this many years ago with another sleazy gym, and it worked. Obviously, nowhere in the communications with the gym I'd acknowledge there is any contract. It's no different than going to a grocery store: just because I've been using it for years doesn't mean there's any contract, even if the grocery stores believes so.
WirelessGigabit 3y ago
This is actually a very good reason to not tell them your real name, but go by an alias.
- gruez 3y ago
  Congratulations! Now you're committing fraud.
  - Scoundreller 3y ago
    It’s only fraud if the Feds care about it enough or for them to sue you. I’d know, I’ve won 17 Nobel prizes.
- squeaky-clean 3y ago
  They'll get your name from your credit card. There's no way to pay with cash or an anonymous visa gift card.
  - WirelessGigabit 3y ago
    AMEX does not require the name on your ID to match the name on your card.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
  - Axien 3y ago
    Privacy.com can have any name on the transaction.
    - squeaky-clean 3y ago
      As other people have mentioned in the thread, this doesn't protect you from a Force Post request by the merchant.
jacquesm 3y ago
I've been on the receiving end of a company that sent their unpaid bills on disputed invoices to debt collection and I just took it to court and won. Note that the debt collectors also don't like buying disputed debt so if enough people took them to court they'd stop doing this. But if enough people fold then it's worth it for them to try. So don't fold. Take it court and make it count for them.

Gyms are notorious for sending unpaid dues to debt collection. Even if the designated cancellation process ought to be illegal, you still have to end the contract to end your legal obligations.

akomtu 3y ago

But there is no contract to begin with. Anyone can enter your credit card number on a LA Fitness website.

AlotOfReading 3y ago
There's still a contract between LA fitness and the person stealing your identity. The debt just happens to get incorrectly assigned to you for collections because we allow "identity theft" to exist. Separate issue.
- sangnoir 3y ago
  > There's still a contract between LA fitness and the person stealing your identity There's a contract between LA fitness and someone commiting fraud with my CC. My identity can't be stolen because I still have it - LA Fitness has been defrauded by a 3rd party and they shouldn't involve me in their mess.
  - ceejayoz 3y ago
    If it's real fraud, sure. If not, that might work in the first month or two. If you've been going for nine months, good luck. They'll pull up all the photos they automatically took of you entering the doors to check in.
xg15 3y ago
If you sign up and immediately cancel, maybe. But if you actually visited the gym a few times and made use of their service, I doubt any judge would follow that logic.
- akomtu 3y ago
  LA Fitness won't stand a chance in a court. You'd show the judge a email demanding to cancel the subscription, and LAF will show a scammy "terms of service" implying you can't easily cancel. That's why scammy companies like this want binding arbitration and try to avoid any real scrutiny.
  - xg15 3y ago
    I'm absolutely with you that their games around cancelling are beyond shitty and hopefully illegal - but my point was that those are two orthogonal legal matters and it's not a good idea to start playing games of your own if you suspect the other to do so. In this case, your argument was that you never had a contract with them in the first place. But this would be hard to believe if you actually used their services. Your cancellation email would undermine this argument even more, as you don't request cancellation if you don't have a contract. So a court could perfectly well decide that the gym acted in breach of the law by making it deliberately hard to cancel, but that you acted in breach of the law too by stopping payment without even trying to cancel. If you argue that you made your best effort to cancel, as documented by the email, that would be a more convincing argument I think (not a lawyer tho) but that's a different argument than claiming there never was a contract at all.
    - akomtu 3y ago
      My email would say that I'm no longer visiting the gym and they must stop charging my card, and to avoid confusion, I'm stopping the payments on my end. I actually did exactly this many years ago with another sleazy gym, and it worked. Obviously, nowhere in the communications with the gym I'd acknowledge there is any contract. It's no different than going to a grocery store: just because I've been using it for years doesn't mean there's any contract, even if the grocery stores believes so.

WirelessGigabit 3y ago

This is actually a very good reason to not tell them your real name, but go by an alias.

gruez 3y ago
Congratulations! Now you're committing fraud.
- Scoundreller 3y ago
  It’s only fraud if the Feds care about it enough or for them to sue you. I’d know, I’ve won 17 Nobel prizes.
squeaky-clean 3y ago
They'll get your name from your credit card. There's no way to pay with cash or an anonymous visa gift card.
- WirelessGigabit 3y ago
  AMEX does not require the name on your ID to match the name on your card.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- Axien 3y ago
  Privacy.com can have any name on the transaction.
  - squeaky-clean 3y ago
    As other people have mentioned in the thread, this doesn't protect you from a Force Post request by the merchant.

jacquesm 3y ago

I've been on the receiving end of a company that sent their unpaid bills on disputed invoices to debt collection and I just took it to court and won. Note that the debt collectors also don't like buying disputed debt so if enough people took them to court they'd stop doing this. But if enough people fold then it's worth it for them to try. So don't fold. Take it court and make it count for them.