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Did anyone here read TFA? He was apparently shown to be a member of a cyber "gang", and expressed zero remorse. In this case, a judge basically has to do somet

Did anyone here read TFA? He was apparently shown to be a member of a cyber "gang", and expressed zero remorse. In this case, a judge basically has to do something. > A mental health assessment used as part of the sentencing hearing said he "continued to express the intent to return to cybercrime as soon as possible. He is highly motivated." The guy was already on bail for another hack: > The jury was told that while he was on bail for hacking Nvidia and BT/EE and in police protection at a Travelodge hotel, he continued hacking and carried out his most infamous hack. > He worked with Kurtaj and other members of Lapsus$ to hack tech giant Nvidia and phone company BT/EE and steal data before demanding a four million dollar ransom, which was not paid. > They also stole directly from individuals through their cryptocurrency wallets. So: > He will remain at a secure hospital for life unless doctors deem him no longer a danger. Hospital b/c of his severe autism. Ostensibly, what has to be done is rehabilitation. If he can even lie convincingly, he'll be out tomorrow.

lemmetaste 3y ago
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sandworm101 3y ago
>> If he can even lie convincingly, he'll be out tomorrow. Give the mental health pros a little credit. Getting out of a psych ward isn't as simple as saying you aren't going to do it again.
dkjaudyeqooe 3y ago
The title of this post is manifestly wrong. Being locked up for an indefinite period is not the same as being locked up for life since he can be released at any time. But having said that, being locked up "at His Majesty's pleasure" as this is called is s scary sentence, since you can indeed end up in prison for you whole life if you do not have the support of the relevant doctors. The conspiracy theorists here should remember he was convicted by a jury and can appeal his sentence like anyone else. If that's insufficient come up with a better system.
thomastjeffery 3y ago
Yes, I read the article. It's full of expectations. There is the expectation that someone should be punished severely for hacking a multi-billion dollar corporation. There is the expectation that that punishment will result in them just never hacking again. There is the expectation that a person who is arrested and threatened will respond with patience, and not with their own violence. There is the expectation that the well-known symptoms of Autism will just magically disappear whenever they conflict with the above expectations. If not, it's the fault of the person with Autism, not whoever set impossible expectations. --- All of these expectations have a common theme: they are leveled at this one person. He's a teenager with Autism! It doesn't matter: we have expectations, and they have to be met. Fuck that. I have expectations of my own. I expect that a justice system will actually try to meet people at their own level. I expect that a justice system will attempt to resolve mental health with treatment instead of violence. I expect that a multi-billion dollar company will respond to hacks with the only effective method there is: strengthening their own security. Anything else is just a waste of breath. My expectations are not being met. There's not a damn thing I can do about it, either: I'm not the one with billions of dollars at my disposal.
- dghlsakjg 3y ago
  He is being met with treatment instead of punishment. He stole and extorted, assaulted people, and destroyed property and was convicted of actual crimes. They did try to meet him at his level. They released him pending bail and he committed more crimes. He told the court that if they released him he would continue committing crimes. They aren’t sending him to prison though, because he isn’t mentally fit. They are sending him for medical treatment, at no cost to him, until he is determined to no longer be a threat to himself or others. This seems far more humane than sending a mentally unwell teenager to prison where he certainly wouldn’t get the level of care that he will now.
  - thomastjeffery 3y ago
    The primary crimes we are talking about are not the violent ones. They are hacking. You are welcome to disagree with me, but I don't believe hacking Rockstar to get a peek under the curtain should be a crime. So what if we took that part out of the story? What would change? Everything. The whole story would be completely different. --- Call it treatment all you want. The goal has already been laid out, and it's not rehabilitation. Have you ever been in a mental hospital? They do important work, but that doesn't change the reality of what they are. It's a prison with carpets. Trained guards are prepared, not only to detain you, but even to sedate you. Yes, they exist for treatment, but that doesn't make them a good fit for everyone. We can, and should try other avenues first. I'm not content to throw up my hands and give up on this person. I'm not content to accept this system as the best our society can provide.
mise_en_place 3y ago
Not sure if I'd call that severe autism. That's psychopathic behavior, when you don't feel any remorse for your crimes.
- thomastjeffery 3y ago
  I don't feel remorse for his crimes. Am I a psychopath? Hacking a game company just so you can show people what is being worked on should not be a crime.
  - ianhawes 3y ago
    He hacked a game company and threatened to release confidential information unless they paid a ransom.
    - thomastjeffery 3y ago
      I agree that the ransom was immoral, and probably should be criminal. Beyond that, I don't agree with any of this. If a company wants to keep secrets, then they are welcome to try. Let that be their responsibility.
  - mise_en_place 3y ago
    The Rockstar breach was just one instance of criminal behavior. This individual is clearly dangerous and should not be allowed back into society. There is a pattern of blatant disregard of the law, it's not like he's a grey-hat or even black-hat security researcher.
    - thomastjeffery 3y ago
      Is it a disregard for the law, or a disagreement? The law is unjust to begin with. I don't blame anyone for breaking it twice. Would I recommend it? No. That doesn't mean I have to judge them for it. The scary behavior here is his violence; but that violence was clearly a reaction to the violence he was confronted with: being arrested and threatened. I'm not convinced that he is a threat to society. Sure, I can agree that it was wrong for him to react with violence. But what else could I reasonably expect from someone with Autism being punished for technically-illegal behavior? Have you ever spent more than 10 minutes with someone who has severe Autism? If you have, then you know not to expect them to be great at following arbitrary rules. That doesn't mean they have to be institutionalized! The solution to this problem is well-known: treatment. It's clear that that is not the goal in this case.
kvathupo 3y ago
I would be inclined to agree, but I'm reminded of passages from Edwin Black's book [1] depicting the capriciousness of medical providers. E.g. a board of doctors was typically responsible for sterilization decisions in America when eugenics was mainstream during the early 1900s. It seems reasonable that doctors should be final arbiters of medical decisions, as in releasing this aforementioned hacker from a mental hospital. But the book revealed how these doctors would often inconsistently apply their sterilization standards to favor prominent local families whilst punishing the usual victims, i.e. minorities and poor whites. In this regard, I find this case deeply disturbing, and would prefer if he simply got a definite sentence. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Against_the_Weak https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Against_the_Weak
- jvanderbot 3y ago
  Given the magnitude of his continuous hacks, and his verbally expressed desire to do it again and complete lack of remorse, the alternative is prison, either now, or on repeat offenses. The chance of a more rehabilitation-oriented stay is probably worth it.
deleted 3y ago
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lemmetaste 3y ago

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sandworm101 3y ago

>> If he can even lie convincingly, he'll be out tomorrow. Give the mental health pros a little credit. Getting out of a psych ward isn't as simple as saying you aren't going to do it again.

dkjaudyeqooe 3y ago

The title of this post is manifestly wrong. Being locked up for an indefinite period is not the same as being locked up for life since he can be released at any time. But having said that, being locked up "at His Majesty's pleasure" as this is called is s scary sentence, since you can indeed end up in prison for you whole life if you do not have the support of the relevant doctors. The conspiracy theorists here should remember he was convicted by a jury and can appeal his sentence like anyone else. If that's insufficient come up with a better system.

thomastjeffery 3y ago

Yes, I read the article. It's full of expectations. There is the expectation that someone should be punished severely for hacking a multi-billion dollar corporation. There is the expectation that that punishment will result in them just never hacking again. There is the expectation that a person who is arrested and threatened will respond with patience, and not with their own violence. There is the expectation that the well-known symptoms of Autism will just magically disappear whenever they conflict with the above expectations. If not, it's the fault of the person with Autism, not whoever set impossible expectations. --- All of these expectations have a common theme: they are leveled at this one person. He's a teenager with Autism! It doesn't matter: we have expectations, and they have to be met. Fuck that. I have expectations of my own. I expect that a justice system will actually try to meet people at their own level. I expect that a justice system will attempt to resolve mental health with treatment instead of violence. I expect that a multi-billion dollar company will respond to hacks with the only effective method there is: strengthening their own security. Anything else is just a waste of breath. My expectations are not being met. There's not a damn thing I can do about it, either: I'm not the one with billions of dollars at my disposal.

dghlsakjg 3y ago
He is being met with treatment instead of punishment. He stole and extorted, assaulted people, and destroyed property and was convicted of actual crimes. They did try to meet him at his level. They released him pending bail and he committed more crimes. He told the court that if they released him he would continue committing crimes. They aren’t sending him to prison though, because he isn’t mentally fit. They are sending him for medical treatment, at no cost to him, until he is determined to no longer be a threat to himself or others. This seems far more humane than sending a mentally unwell teenager to prison where he certainly wouldn’t get the level of care that he will now.
- thomastjeffery 3y ago
  The primary crimes we are talking about are not the violent ones. They are hacking. You are welcome to disagree with me, but I don't believe hacking Rockstar to get a peek under the curtain should be a crime. So what if we took that part out of the story? What would change? Everything. The whole story would be completely different. --- Call it treatment all you want. The goal has already been laid out, and it's not rehabilitation. Have you ever been in a mental hospital? They do important work, but that doesn't change the reality of what they are. It's a prison with carpets. Trained guards are prepared, not only to detain you, but even to sedate you. Yes, they exist for treatment, but that doesn't make them a good fit for everyone. We can, and should try other avenues first. I'm not content to throw up my hands and give up on this person. I'm not content to accept this system as the best our society can provide.

mise_en_place 3y ago

Not sure if I'd call that severe autism. That's psychopathic behavior, when you don't feel any remorse for your crimes.

thomastjeffery 3y ago
I don't feel remorse for his crimes. Am I a psychopath? Hacking a game company just so you can show people what is being worked on should not be a crime.
- ianhawes 3y ago
  He hacked a game company and threatened to release confidential information unless they paid a ransom.
  - thomastjeffery 3y ago
    I agree that the ransom was immoral, and probably should be criminal. Beyond that, I don't agree with any of this. If a company wants to keep secrets, then they are welcome to try. Let that be their responsibility.
- mise_en_place 3y ago
  The Rockstar breach was just one instance of criminal behavior. This individual is clearly dangerous and should not be allowed back into society. There is a pattern of blatant disregard of the law, it's not like he's a grey-hat or even black-hat security researcher.
  - thomastjeffery 3y ago
    Is it a disregard for the law, or a disagreement? The law is unjust to begin with. I don't blame anyone for breaking it twice. Would I recommend it? No. That doesn't mean I have to judge them for it. The scary behavior here is his violence; but that violence was clearly a reaction to the violence he was confronted with: being arrested and threatened. I'm not convinced that he is a threat to society. Sure, I can agree that it was wrong for him to react with violence. But what else could I reasonably expect from someone with Autism being punished for technically-illegal behavior? Have you ever spent more than 10 minutes with someone who has severe Autism? If you have, then you know not to expect them to be great at following arbitrary rules. That doesn't mean they have to be institutionalized! The solution to this problem is well-known: treatment. It's clear that that is not the goal in this case.

kvathupo 3y ago

I would be inclined to agree, but I'm reminded of passages from Edwin Black's book [1] depicting the capriciousness of medical providers. E.g. a board of doctors was typically responsible for sterilization decisions in America when eugenics was mainstream during the early 1900s. It seems reasonable that doctors should be final arbiters of medical decisions, as in releasing this aforementioned hacker from a mental hospital. But the book revealed how these doctors would often inconsistently apply their sterilization standards to favor prominent local families whilst punishing the usual victims, i.e. minorities and poor whites. In this regard, I find this case deeply disturbing, and would prefer if he simply got a definite sentence. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Against_the_Weak https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Against_the_Weak

jvanderbot 3y ago
Given the magnitude of his continuous hacks, and his verbally expressed desire to do it again and complete lack of remorse, the alternative is prison, either now, or on repeat offenses. The chance of a more rehabilitation-oriented stay is probably worth it.

deleted 3y ago

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