4 ms·

Setting the ball in motion to set a precedent I'm guessing. Everything that has transpired over the last few weeks strengthens the narrative for an anti trust

Setting the ball in motion to set a precedent I'm guessing. Everything that has transpired over the last few weeks strengthens the narrative for an anti trust case and hopefully makes an illustrative case in favour for adversarial interop (w.r.t megacorps). That itself protects an untold amount of OSS projects that have been victims to billion dollar megacorp legal threats and bullying. Idk how these things work but I hope Eric and the beeper team take Apple to the cleaners and get enough to retire a thousand times over.

zamadatix 3y ago
I doubt Beeper will ever see any legal action (or settlement for that matter) directly with Apple from this. I do think it will be a strongly referenced bullet point as regulators look towards something like the DMA for the US or other corps challenge Apple though.
- Lalabadie 3y ago
  That is my thought as well. This was a winning scenario for Beeper because either the iMessage integration kept working, or Apple forced its own hand on very directly locking down messaging to the devices it sells.
  - MBCook 3y ago
    > or Apple forced its own hand on very directly locking down messaging to the devices it sells But that’s not really any different? Even if they hadn’t technically implemented it that way that is the intended way the service is supposed to be used. Locked to Apple devices.
    - zamadatix 3y ago
      It's a bit like being in an HOA where you think the president would tell you to take your specific flag down vs putting up a flag and having them tell you to take it down. Regardless of whether the flag is actually right or wrong in the law (or should/shouldn't be) nobody can take the HOA to court about it because they think the HOA intends for such a flag to be taken down... but they can easily bring it up if it's something the HOA has explicitly done and explicitly messaged about.
  - upon_drumhead 3y ago
    I don’t understand this at all. Messaging is not locked down on Apple devices. You can message with android just fine via sms, and you can install dozens of other messaging solutions. Why does having specific Apple only features outside of the core message set mean it’s now locked down?
ethanbond 3y ago
There is no judge on the planet who will take the position that a 3rd party is allowed to circumvent a service’s security controls and TOS to build a monetized product using a backend that neither they nor their users pay for. Absolutely zero chance.
- madeofpalk 3y ago
  Imagine reverse engineering AWS keys, using AWS services for free, reselling them, and then trying to sue AWS when they fix the security hole.
  - smashah 3y ago
    Maybe lack of imagination? There are handsomely VC funded successful startups that do exactly this in banking, for example Teller: https://jobs.lever.co/teller/ebf503af-bb82-49fb-97bd-6d9bcbb403e2 https://jobs.lever.co/teller/ebf503af-bb82-49fb-97bd-6d9bcbb...
    - ethanbond 3y ago
      This is not “exactly this.” Teller is giving users additional access modalities to services they’re already separately “paying for.” The directly analogous format would be if Teller was allowing you to store your money at Bank of America but Teller was preventing BOA from collecting revenue from you.
      - smashah 3y ago
        No. It's like if teller allowed you to make a boa account as well. As if this one small feature makes it some egregious criminal activity. Many beeper mini users already have apple devices + Eric in his post said he's willing to pay some reasonable fee. Nobody pays for iMessage directly.
        ethanbond 3y ago
        Nobody pays for bank accounts directly either. Oh Eric said he’s willing to pay? Guess that counts as a deal then!

zamadatix 3y ago

I doubt Beeper will ever see any legal action (or settlement for that matter) directly with Apple from this. I do think it will be a strongly referenced bullet point as regulators look towards something like the DMA for the US or other corps challenge Apple though.

Lalabadie 3y ago
That is my thought as well. This was a winning scenario for Beeper because either the iMessage integration kept working, or Apple forced its own hand on very directly locking down messaging to the devices it sells.
- MBCook 3y ago
  > or Apple forced its own hand on very directly locking down messaging to the devices it sells But that’s not really any different? Even if they hadn’t technically implemented it that way that is the intended way the service is supposed to be used. Locked to Apple devices.
  - zamadatix 3y ago
    It's a bit like being in an HOA where you think the president would tell you to take your specific flag down vs putting up a flag and having them tell you to take it down. Regardless of whether the flag is actually right or wrong in the law (or should/shouldn't be) nobody can take the HOA to court about it because they think the HOA intends for such a flag to be taken down... but they can easily bring it up if it's something the HOA has explicitly done and explicitly messaged about.
- upon_drumhead 3y ago
  I don’t understand this at all. Messaging is not locked down on Apple devices. You can message with android just fine via sms, and you can install dozens of other messaging solutions. Why does having specific Apple only features outside of the core message set mean it’s now locked down?

ethanbond 3y ago

There is no judge on the planet who will take the position that a 3rd party is allowed to circumvent a service’s security controls and TOS to build a monetized product using a backend that neither they nor their users pay for. Absolutely zero chance.

madeofpalk 3y ago
Imagine reverse engineering AWS keys, using AWS services for free, reselling them, and then trying to sue AWS when they fix the security hole.
- smashah 3y ago
  Maybe lack of imagination? There are handsomely VC funded successful startups that do exactly this in banking, for example Teller: https://jobs.lever.co/teller/ebf503af-bb82-49fb-97bd-6d9bcbb403e2 https://jobs.lever.co/teller/ebf503af-bb82-49fb-97bd-6d9bcbb...
  - ethanbond 3y ago
    This is not “exactly this.” Teller is giving users additional access modalities to services they’re already separately “paying for.” The directly analogous format would be if Teller was allowing you to store your money at Bank of America but Teller was preventing BOA from collecting revenue from you.
    - smashah 3y ago
      No. It's like if teller allowed you to make a boa account as well. As if this one small feature makes it some egregious criminal activity. Many beeper mini users already have apple devices + Eric in his post said he's willing to pay some reasonable fee. Nobody pays for iMessage directly.
      - ethanbond 3y ago
        Nobody pays for bank accounts directly either. Oh Eric said he’s willing to pay? Guess that counts as a deal then!