5 ms·

Eric's not an idiot, so I'm thoroughly confused by what he was hoping to accomplish, here.

by COGlory 3y ago

ycombinatrix 3y ago
someone had to do it. i thank him for his service.
- madeofpalk 3y ago
  Do what?
  - MBCook 3y ago
    Break into iMessage to free Android users from the oppression of… I don’t know. This has all been weirdly performative.
  - Nextgrid 3y ago
    Call Apple's bullshit and prove that there is technically no reason why iMessage can't work on Android. The only reason it doesn't work is because Apple doesn't want it to, not that it's technically impossible or has security concerns. Considering the media coverage and that there are now bipartisan calls for an antitrust investigation I think they've succeeded very well.
    - rootusrootus 3y ago
      > The only reason it doesn't work is because Apple doesn't want it to How many people thought otherwise? If they thought about it at all? I feel like HN users vastly overestimate the amount of thought the average user puts into things like this.
      - Nextgrid 3y ago
        Apple really pushes the snake-oil that locking out Beeper is because of security and not vendor lock-in & business interests. They wouldn't do so if nobody believed it.
      - jacksontrom 3y ago
        I can assure you the vast majority thought that the problem was with Android phones.
  - quantumsequoia 3y ago
    Among non-technical lay people, the perception is Android can't interoperate with iPhones due to inferior technology. (For example, people call low resolution photos android photos. They don't realize photos sent over sms were downscaled by the protocol, they assume it was taken in that low resolution format to begin with) Suddenly being able to text androids without issue made it clear to everyone it's a policy-limitation, not a technological limitation
realusername 3y ago
This is a bad precedent giving ammunition for the next antitrust lawsuits so I guess that could be one of the goals.
smashah 3y ago
Setting the ball in motion to set a precedent I'm guessing. Everything that has transpired over the last few weeks strengthens the narrative for an anti trust case and hopefully makes an illustrative case in favour for adversarial interop (w.r.t megacorps). That itself protects an untold amount of OSS projects that have been victims to billion dollar megacorp legal threats and bullying. Idk how these things work but I hope Eric and the beeper team take Apple to the cleaners and get enough to retire a thousand times over.
- zamadatix 3y ago
  I doubt Beeper will ever see any legal action (or settlement for that matter) directly with Apple from this. I do think it will be a strongly referenced bullet point as regulators look towards something like the DMA for the US or other corps challenge Apple though.
  - Lalabadie 3y ago
    That is my thought as well. This was a winning scenario for Beeper because either the iMessage integration kept working, or Apple forced its own hand on very directly locking down messaging to the devices it sells.
    - MBCook 3y ago
      > or Apple forced its own hand on very directly locking down messaging to the devices it sells But that’s not really any different? Even if they hadn’t technically implemented it that way that is the intended way the service is supposed to be used. Locked to Apple devices.
      - zamadatix 3y ago
        It's a bit like being in an HOA where you think the president would tell you to take your specific flag down vs putting up a flag and having them tell you to take it down. Regardless of whether the flag is actually right or wrong in the law (or should/shouldn't be) nobody can take the HOA to court about it because they think the HOA intends for such a flag to be taken down... but they can easily bring it up if it's something the HOA has explicitly done and explicitly messaged about.
supergeek133 3y ago
People have been complaining about the defacto Apple "phone class" they have created with messaging for years. This threw it back up into the light a little more by not just complaining but trying to do something about it.
micromacrofoot 3y ago
I suspect they were hoping it would be harder for Apple to close the workarounds, so they'd have a unique position in the marketplace for a little while longer than they did. Probably decent marketing... how many people didn't know beeper existed before this?
- MBCook 3y ago
  I think this whole saga is stupid, but you’re absolutely right. I had never heard of them before. Maybe they did get some users out of this who will use the non-iMessage parts of the service that already existed. However while I now know who they are might view of them is also tainted a bit because they made (what I see as) bad decisions. So at least in my case I’m not sure it’s that beneficial to them.

Eric's not an idiot, so I'm thoroughly confused by what he was hoping to accomplish, here.

ycombinatrix 3y ago

someone had to do it. i thank him for his service.

madeofpalk 3y ago
Do what?
- MBCook 3y ago
  Break into iMessage to free Android users from the oppression of… I don’t know. This has all been weirdly performative.
- Nextgrid 3y ago
  Call Apple's bullshit and prove that there is technically no reason why iMessage can't work on Android. The only reason it doesn't work is because Apple doesn't want it to, not that it's technically impossible or has security concerns. Considering the media coverage and that there are now bipartisan calls for an antitrust investigation I think they've succeeded very well.
  - rootusrootus 3y ago
    > The only reason it doesn't work is because Apple doesn't want it to How many people thought otherwise? If they thought about it at all? I feel like HN users vastly overestimate the amount of thought the average user puts into things like this.
    - Nextgrid 3y ago
      Apple really pushes the snake-oil that locking out Beeper is because of security and not vendor lock-in & business interests. They wouldn't do so if nobody believed it.
    - jacksontrom 3y ago
      I can assure you the vast majority thought that the problem was with Android phones.
- quantumsequoia 3y ago
  Among non-technical lay people, the perception is Android can't interoperate with iPhones due to inferior technology. (For example, people call low resolution photos android photos. They don't realize photos sent over sms were downscaled by the protocol, they assume it was taken in that low resolution format to begin with) Suddenly being able to text androids without issue made it clear to everyone it's a policy-limitation, not a technological limitation

realusername 3y ago

This is a bad precedent giving ammunition for the next antitrust lawsuits so I guess that could be one of the goals.

smashah 3y ago

Setting the ball in motion to set a precedent I'm guessing. Everything that has transpired over the last few weeks strengthens the narrative for an anti trust case and hopefully makes an illustrative case in favour for adversarial interop (w.r.t megacorps). That itself protects an untold amount of OSS projects that have been victims to billion dollar megacorp legal threats and bullying. Idk how these things work but I hope Eric and the beeper team take Apple to the cleaners and get enough to retire a thousand times over.

zamadatix 3y ago
I doubt Beeper will ever see any legal action (or settlement for that matter) directly with Apple from this. I do think it will be a strongly referenced bullet point as regulators look towards something like the DMA for the US or other corps challenge Apple though.
- Lalabadie 3y ago
  That is my thought as well. This was a winning scenario for Beeper because either the iMessage integration kept working, or Apple forced its own hand on very directly locking down messaging to the devices it sells.
  - MBCook 3y ago
    > or Apple forced its own hand on very directly locking down messaging to the devices it sells But that’s not really any different? Even if they hadn’t technically implemented it that way that is the intended way the service is supposed to be used. Locked to Apple devices.
    - zamadatix 3y ago
      It's a bit like being in an HOA where you think the president would tell you to take your specific flag down vs putting up a flag and having them tell you to take it down. Regardless of whether the flag is actually right or wrong in the law (or should/shouldn't be) nobody can take the HOA to court about it because they think the HOA intends for such a flag to be taken down... but they can easily bring it up if it's something the HOA has explicitly done and explicitly messaged about.

supergeek133 3y ago

People have been complaining about the defacto Apple "phone class" they have created with messaging for years. This threw it back up into the light a little more by not just complaining but trying to do something about it.

micromacrofoot 3y ago

I suspect they were hoping it would be harder for Apple to close the workarounds, so they'd have a unique position in the marketplace for a little while longer than they did. Probably decent marketing... how many people didn't know beeper existed before this?

MBCook 3y ago
I think this whole saga is stupid, but you’re absolutely right. I had never heard of them before. Maybe they did get some users out of this who will use the non-iMessage parts of the service that already existed. However while I now know who they are might view of them is also tainted a bit because they made (what I see as) bad decisions. So at least in my case I’m not sure it’s that beneficial to them.