5 ms·

I don't know about Alipay, but afaict WeChat needs this feature for WeChat Wifi, which lets users connect to internet hotspots from their WeChat accounts https:

by n2d4 3y ago

I don't know about Alipay, but afaict WeChat needs this feature for WeChat Wifi, which lets users connect to internet hotspots from their WeChat accounts https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s?__biz=MzI1NjA0NzQzOQ==&mid=2650265391&idx=1&sn=e24f6b2264b57ecccd2d0700541a83df&chksm=f22fd70fc5585e199ea8999df625e89193d8f6e4c6f154b6096d8ab5bbf87ab780141160cf55&scene=0&key=0153b628e79ca88b2694ec5a93ce962cfbdaa76194e003fb16eb2f59390ce91eb4125cb98cd5e2987fc1d73c8af9d72155c76c97ec993f0940db651f31222d39a6ddda28158d1d568659dbe0c87e10a2&ascene=0&uin=NjYwOTkzMjg0&devicetype=iMac+MacBookPro12%2C1+OSX+OSX+10.11.3+build(15D21)&version=12020010&nettype=WIFI&fontScale=100&pass_ticket=hoPMe53iGgox%2BVFql5cdbE58fMNT6oflj517YrF1%2Bc2jba65yvnLA3pPOBW62NVY https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s?__biz=MzI1NjA0NzQzOQ==&mid=265026...

smith7018 3y ago
I’m sure that’s valid but I’ve worked for mobile app companies and can guarantee features like this are added just to get the entitlement.
- r00fus 3y ago
  Ah now I see - to get all the entitlements they create a super-app that happens to use those things. Then they can spy on us for our main use case
  - ccorcos 3y ago
    Seems like Apple should give users the ability to download an app while rejecting an entitlement.
    - Analemma_ 3y ago
      You can. iOS apps have to request individual permissions - I'm not sure about the specific level of granularity here, but you can deny location access while still letting the rest of the app run, and the app has to be able to deal with it.
      - diebeforei485 3y ago
        As I understand it, this SSID feature does not require location services permissions.
      - ghostpepper 3y ago
        It's not a new idea but I would love to see Apple implement a way to serve eg. a fake, empty contact list for an app that refuses to enable a feature unless you allow contact list permissions.
      - lxgr 3y ago
        No, you can reject permissions, but not entitlements. Entitlements are granted (statically, per developer certificate or maybe app ID, not sure) by Apple, permissions are (optionally) granted by users at runtime. The only way to not have an app making use of an API gated by (only) an entitlement is to never install it. Of course there could be permissions that are gated behind entitlements, but in this case it seems to be only an entitlement.
        sunnybeetroot 3y ago
        And even then, an app can block usage until you allow a permission; ie Snapchat doesn’t need the camera permission to allow you to chat but will block usage of the app until you enable it.
        xhainingx 3y ago
        Snapchat has allowed you to chat without camera permission for years on Android. It's still required on iOS?
- lxgr 3y ago
  I at least partially blame Apple for this too. I personally use several different terminal/Unix emulator/SSH client apps on iOS that request the "background location" permission solely because there is no actual "background execution" API.
  - illiac786 3y ago
    That's a design decision. Apple doesn't trust developers in general not to abuse this background API. They expect lots of aid requesting it, unknowledgeable users granting it without thinking much, and iPhones getting a crappy reputation for battery performance as a result. I dislike this decision (taking a choice away from the user) but from a business point of view it makes sense.
samstave 3y ago
The complexities and capabilities in the Chinese(well, most asia) mobile market are remarkable. I always find it funny when people boast about how great certain things are in the US without ever have traveled to HK, Singapore, Tokyo, Beijing etc... Most people dont realize just how entangled mobile life is in Asia, way more than in the US.
- ethbr1 3y ago
  Centralized superapps seem incredibly dangerous to privacy, given that the limited mobile privacy models are designed around per-app permissions. 1. Create app that does 1 thing 2. Add more features to app 3. Abuse superset of permissions 4. Gov leans on app owner 5. Gov abuses superset of permissions
  - samstave 3y ago
    No, I more than 100% agree, I am just staing that most people just dont realize just how deeply entangled the mobile is to Asian life. I wasn't praising it, I am horrified, but also in awe by it.
    - gman83 3y ago
      I'm pretty sure most people are very aware that most of east Asia never saw massive PC adoption and so their internet developed in a very mobile-centric way. This hasn't been surprising for a long time?
      - michaelt 3y ago
        I'm not sure I agree. I mean, back when the west had WAP there were articles saying NTT DoCoMo had much more advanced phone technology, sure. But in terms of making it into the cultural consciousness - you don't see ubiquitous asia-specific mobile super-apps in cultural exports like 'Squid Game' or 'Spy X Family' (admittedly a lot of cultural exports aren't set in the present day)
      - AniseAbyss 3y ago

by n2d4 3y ago

smith7018 3y ago

I’m sure that’s valid but I’ve worked for mobile app companies and can guarantee features like this are added just to get the entitlement.

r00fus 3y ago
Ah now I see - to get all the entitlements they create a super-app that happens to use those things. Then they can spy on us for our main use case
- ccorcos 3y ago
  Seems like Apple should give users the ability to download an app while rejecting an entitlement.
  - Analemma_ 3y ago
    You can. iOS apps have to request individual permissions - I'm not sure about the specific level of granularity here, but you can deny location access while still letting the rest of the app run, and the app has to be able to deal with it.
    - diebeforei485 3y ago
      As I understand it, this SSID feature does not require location services permissions.
    - ghostpepper 3y ago
      It's not a new idea but I would love to see Apple implement a way to serve eg. a fake, empty contact list for an app that refuses to enable a feature unless you allow contact list permissions.
    - lxgr 3y ago
      No, you can reject permissions, but not entitlements. Entitlements are granted (statically, per developer certificate or maybe app ID, not sure) by Apple, permissions are (optionally) granted by users at runtime. The only way to not have an app making use of an API gated by (only) an entitlement is to never install it. Of course there could be permissions that are gated behind entitlements, but in this case it seems to be only an entitlement.
      - sunnybeetroot 3y ago
        And even then, an app can block usage until you allow a permission; ie Snapchat doesn’t need the camera permission to allow you to chat but will block usage of the app until you enable it.
        xhainingx 3y ago
        Snapchat has allowed you to chat without camera permission for years on Android. It's still required on iOS?
lxgr 3y ago
I at least partially blame Apple for this too. I personally use several different terminal/Unix emulator/SSH client apps on iOS that request the "background location" permission solely because there is no actual "background execution" API.
- illiac786 3y ago
  That's a design decision. Apple doesn't trust developers in general not to abuse this background API. They expect lots of aid requesting it, unknowledgeable users granting it without thinking much, and iPhones getting a crappy reputation for battery performance as a result. I dislike this decision (taking a choice away from the user) but from a business point of view it makes sense.

samstave 3y ago

The complexities and capabilities in the Chinese(well, most asia) mobile market are remarkable. I always find it funny when people boast about how great certain things are in the US without ever have traveled to HK, Singapore, Tokyo, Beijing etc... Most people dont realize just how entangled mobile life is in Asia, way more than in the US.

ethbr1 3y ago
Centralized superapps seem incredibly dangerous to privacy, given that the limited mobile privacy models are designed around per-app permissions. 1. Create app that does 1 thing 2. Add more features to app 3. Abuse superset of permissions 4. Gov leans on app owner 5. Gov abuses superset of permissions
- samstave 3y ago
  No, I more than 100% agree, I am just staing that most people just dont realize just how deeply entangled the mobile is to Asian life. I wasn't praising it, I am horrified, but also in awe by it.
  - gman83 3y ago
    I'm pretty sure most people are very aware that most of east Asia never saw massive PC adoption and so their internet developed in a very mobile-centric way. This hasn't been surprising for a long time?
    - michaelt 3y ago
      I'm not sure I agree. I mean, back when the west had WAP there were articles saying NTT DoCoMo had much more advanced phone technology, sure. But in terms of making it into the cultural consciousness - you don't see ubiquitous asia-specific mobile super-apps in cultural exports like 'Squid Game' or 'Spy X Family' (admittedly a lot of cultural exports aren't set in the present day)
    - AniseAbyss 3y ago