3 ms·

Tech workers are the only people that I know in my age range (almost 40) who have a handful of children instead of the usual 1-2. Like 3-5. I will never underst

by swozey 3y ago

Tech workers are the only people that I know in my age range (almost 40) who have a handful of children instead of the usual 1-2. Like 3-5. I will never understand why someone actually intends to have 3-5 children in modern times when we're not working on a farm or in the mines. We're at 4, ok when can we have 5? ... Why, what does having a 5th child change for you? Are you bored? Is your hobby at that point literally just raising children?

gambiting 3y ago
My experience is the exact opposite - people in tech have either 0 or 1 kid(and swear they won't have any more - after all, how can you fit any more in your life). People outside of tech(teachers, academics, accountants, musicians) all have 2-3 kids. >>Why, what does having a 5th child change for you? Are you bored? I mean, I only have 1 personally, but I get it - kids are fun. And the process of being a parent is fun(outside of the parts that absolutely suck) and extremely rewarding, it's been more rewarding than everything I have ever done in my professional career, and I have some things under my belt that I'm very proud of - seeing my son develop is still more rewarding than any of these. I assume that with every new child you just get to repeat the process and get that reward again and again and again. So I suppose the answer is ultimately - for somewhat selfish reasons. Kids are not just mine workers or care for the elderly.
- swozey 3y ago
  That's interesting considering one big obvious reason my coworkers/friends have 3+ kids is because they easily clear $300k+ single income and can live in 6 bedroom homes, etc. Drive those massive suburbans.. I have a very difficult time believing that the 3rd, 4th, etc children have a dad like you who still has the time to have fun with them and treat them properly and love their achievements each, etc. But it's possible. My mom has 6 siblings and they were raised like wolves, but they're boomers. I have one (older) sibling and we absolutely vied for our parents attention and do not get along whatsoever.
  - gambiting 3y ago
    I think there's probably a few things at play here. Here in UK tech workers don't earn anywhere near what their US counterparts do. A senior programmer might be paid 50-100k depending on the company, but it's very rare to cross that level(and once you do, you start losing state benefits related to child care and paying higher and higher levels of tax). "Tech workers" definitely don't have 6-bed houses and drive massive SUVs here, at best they enjoy relaxed "upper middle class" lifestyle - newish 4 bed house on a modern estate, 2 leased cars, swimming in mortgage payments and other debt. They aren't struggling but they aren't so comfortable to have 6 kids and pay for all of their childcare costs - because everyone knows that doing so would just erase those great salaries and would most likely mean a step down in the quality of life. They will earn more than teachers, but like 2-3x as much, not 10x as much. Then most tech workers I know have had to move for their jobs - so they don't have immediate support of family, grandparents etc - so having more kids means more daily responsibilities and more daily costs for childcare. In contrast the other people I mentioned all live close to their families - so having 3 kids is not a big deal because half the time grandma is over and helps out. Like, for us we pay more in childcare(just for one child!) than what our mortgage is per month, partially because we don't have any family around us to help. These are my observations anyway, anecdotes - take them as just that.
- yoyohello13 3y ago
  I have no kids, and due to my medical circumstances will probably never have them. As I get older there seems to be more and more Death around. Grandparents, Aunts and Uncles are getting older and Dying. Having more people expanding the family, becoming alive and growing is just better for the psyche. So I can see the appeal of having a lot of kids.
ldehaan 3y ago
[dead]
gustavus 3y ago
Well I have 4 and we would seriously consider another if it wasn't for my wife's health. But these 4 little children are the greatest joy in my life, and it has multiplied with each one of them not decreased. There is no greater feeling in the world than when my little girl runs up the stairs to me and screams "DADDY! LOOK WHAT I MADE!" when she gets home from school. Many times my wife and I will just sneak into the toy room and watch them play together and have fun and it is so rewarding. Not to mention how much fun it is to see my son get super excited about D&D and wanting to play it all the time with me. Sure it's hard there are long nights, and poopy diapers and dealing with tantrums, but most of that gets forgotten when you walk into the baby's room after she wakes up from a nap and gives you the biggest smile in the world and claps and laughs just to see you. As my mother recently observed, parenting is one of the hardest and most rewarding things in the world, and I tend to agree.
QuarterReptile 3y ago
Caveat: having a large family is a goal that I haven't achieved yet to this degree >Why, what does having a 5th child change for you? The nth child can change a lot. exponential increase in dynamics amongst siblings, stronger family culture, and on and on. >Are you bored? Never even remotely, but I think we can handle more. > Is your hobby at that point literally just raising children? That's not a terrible understanding. Every day is full of getting to show someone something cool for the first time ("oh, wait until you see/try/hear/taste/experience this! "), boosting their pursuits, being impressed with their accomplishments, laughing until tears at their idiosyncrasies, and trying to break your own bad habits enough that they don't carry to the next generation. Parents lose their hobbies because they have way better stuff to do than those old hobbies.
sdsd 3y ago
>why someone actually intends to have 3-5 children in modern times when we're not working on a farm or in the mines. Mine write great boilerplate code - better than GPT by a good margin, anyway. Also, they're a more reliable retirement option than the state, if you have enough of them. Just kidding, but seriously, having kids opens up a form and depth of love that is otherwise difficult to access. It's sort of like romance - why do people care so much about sex and romantic intimacy? I believe we live in a time of love poverty. Compared to people in the past, who grew up surrounded by many siblings, and two parents, and extended family, and friends, and then lovers, and a lifelong spouse, and many children, and grandchildren, and so on - think of how wealthy in love is such a person. The love of God that fills all suchness with a certain hefty presence, like a thick blanket atop reality. Like a baby knowing his parent is there while he plays. Not to romanticize the past - but I believe a modernity with such love was possible. It's still within grasp. On the other hand, DINK life does seem really awesome in its own way. I guess for me, both paths lead to a very cool kind of wealth, and I understand the merits of both ways. I'm lucky I have a beautiful lovely kind wife and sweet, playful children who fall asleep easily lol.

by swozey 3y ago

gambiting 3y ago

My experience is the exact opposite - people in tech have either 0 or 1 kid(and swear they won't have any more - after all, how can you fit any more in your life). People outside of tech(teachers, academics, accountants, musicians) all have 2-3 kids. >>Why, what does having a 5th child change for you? Are you bored? I mean, I only have 1 personally, but I get it - kids are fun. And the process of being a parent is fun(outside of the parts that absolutely suck) and extremely rewarding, it's been more rewarding than everything I have ever done in my professional career, and I have some things under my belt that I'm very proud of - seeing my son develop is still more rewarding than any of these. I assume that with every new child you just get to repeat the process and get that reward again and again and again. So I suppose the answer is ultimately - for somewhat selfish reasons. Kids are not just mine workers or care for the elderly.

swozey 3y ago
That's interesting considering one big obvious reason my coworkers/friends have 3+ kids is because they easily clear $300k+ single income and can live in 6 bedroom homes, etc. Drive those massive suburbans.. I have a very difficult time believing that the 3rd, 4th, etc children have a dad like you who still has the time to have fun with them and treat them properly and love their achievements each, etc. But it's possible. My mom has 6 siblings and they were raised like wolves, but they're boomers. I have one (older) sibling and we absolutely vied for our parents attention and do not get along whatsoever.
- gambiting 3y ago
  I think there's probably a few things at play here. Here in UK tech workers don't earn anywhere near what their US counterparts do. A senior programmer might be paid 50-100k depending on the company, but it's very rare to cross that level(and once you do, you start losing state benefits related to child care and paying higher and higher levels of tax). "Tech workers" definitely don't have 6-bed houses and drive massive SUVs here, at best they enjoy relaxed "upper middle class" lifestyle - newish 4 bed house on a modern estate, 2 leased cars, swimming in mortgage payments and other debt. They aren't struggling but they aren't so comfortable to have 6 kids and pay for all of their childcare costs - because everyone knows that doing so would just erase those great salaries and would most likely mean a step down in the quality of life. They will earn more than teachers, but like 2-3x as much, not 10x as much. Then most tech workers I know have had to move for their jobs - so they don't have immediate support of family, grandparents etc - so having more kids means more daily responsibilities and more daily costs for childcare. In contrast the other people I mentioned all live close to their families - so having 3 kids is not a big deal because half the time grandma is over and helps out. Like, for us we pay more in childcare(just for one child!) than what our mortgage is per month, partially because we don't have any family around us to help. These are my observations anyway, anecdotes - take them as just that.
yoyohello13 3y ago
I have no kids, and due to my medical circumstances will probably never have them. As I get older there seems to be more and more Death around. Grandparents, Aunts and Uncles are getting older and Dying. Having more people expanding the family, becoming alive and growing is just better for the psyche. So I can see the appeal of having a lot of kids.

ldehaan 3y ago

[dead]

gustavus 3y ago

Well I have 4 and we would seriously consider another if it wasn't for my wife's health. But these 4 little children are the greatest joy in my life, and it has multiplied with each one of them not decreased. There is no greater feeling in the world than when my little girl runs up the stairs to me and screams "DADDY! LOOK WHAT I MADE!" when she gets home from school. Many times my wife and I will just sneak into the toy room and watch them play together and have fun and it is so rewarding. Not to mention how much fun it is to see my son get super excited about D&D and wanting to play it all the time with me. Sure it's hard there are long nights, and poopy diapers and dealing with tantrums, but most of that gets forgotten when you walk into the baby's room after she wakes up from a nap and gives you the biggest smile in the world and claps and laughs just to see you. As my mother recently observed, parenting is one of the hardest and most rewarding things in the world, and I tend to agree.

QuarterReptile 3y ago

Caveat: having a large family is a goal that I haven't achieved yet to this degree >Why, what does having a 5th child change for you? The nth child can change a lot. exponential increase in dynamics amongst siblings, stronger family culture, and on and on. >Are you bored? Never even remotely, but I think we can handle more. > Is your hobby at that point literally just raising children? That's not a terrible understanding. Every day is full of getting to show someone something cool for the first time ("oh, wait until you see/try/hear/taste/experience this! "), boosting their pursuits, being impressed with their accomplishments, laughing until tears at their idiosyncrasies, and trying to break your own bad habits enough that they don't carry to the next generation. Parents lose their hobbies because they have way better stuff to do than those old hobbies.

sdsd 3y ago

>why someone actually intends to have 3-5 children in modern times when we're not working on a farm or in the mines. Mine write great boilerplate code - better than GPT by a good margin, anyway. Also, they're a more reliable retirement option than the state, if you have enough of them. Just kidding, but seriously, having kids opens up a form and depth of love that is otherwise difficult to access. It's sort of like romance - why do people care so much about sex and romantic intimacy? I believe we live in a time of love poverty. Compared to people in the past, who grew up surrounded by many siblings, and two parents, and extended family, and friends, and then lovers, and a lifelong spouse, and many children, and grandchildren, and so on - think of how wealthy in love is such a person. The love of God that fills all suchness with a certain hefty presence, like a thick blanket atop reality. Like a baby knowing his parent is there while he plays. Not to romanticize the past - but I believe a modernity with such love was possible. It's still within grasp. On the other hand, DINK life does seem really awesome in its own way. I guess for me, both paths lead to a very cool kind of wealth, and I understand the merits of both ways. I'm lucky I have a beautiful lovely kind wife and sweet, playful children who fall asleep easily lol.