6 ms·

There is one class of homeless that we see - the mentally ill, drug addicted, drunk, whatever, sleeping on the street, shitting on the sidewalk. But there's al

There is one class of homeless that we see - the mentally ill, drug addicted, drunk, whatever, sleeping on the street, shitting on the sidewalk. But there's also another class of homeless we don't see. They have jobs, they might be your coworker or classmate. But they live out of a car or at a homeless shelter. It's worth keeping that in mind.

seanmcdirmid 3y ago
There is definitely a lot of van life/stealth campers going on here in Seattle, it isn’t hard to notice. But judging by their social media videos, is it fair to call them homeless? It seems like they chose that lifestyle rather than having it forced on them (or maybe it’s a mixture of both?). Van life is a huge difference from the RVs, who don’t really care about stealth, they just come in, deflate their tires, and call some curb+sidewalk their home, pile up random possessions on the sidewalk to make it impassable. This category is usually drug related, so not hard to notice. There is also the working poor who become homeless unrelated to drugs, who are living out of their cars. We really should prioritize those cases, which is easy enough to handle with just housing. They don’t need drug addiction treatment, they aren’t going to burn down the home you give them in a few weeks. But all our money is going to the former and not much is prioritized for the latter, which is a huge shame. I think we should hugely prioritize sober shelters and housing that have strict rules, it would really help the working homeless (none of them want to bunk with drug addicts for good reason, which also keeps them from getting help).
- wwtrv 3y ago
  > It seems like they chose that lifestyle By that definition me not living in a mansion overlooking the ocean is also a lifestyle choice. I doubt that many people in cities would live in vans if housing wasn't so unaffordable.
  - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
    Again, check out the social media. If you decide to live in a van while working a $100k/year remote job, it’s a lifestyle choice.
    - haswell 3y ago
      The social media van life trend is one thing. People choosing to live in their cars for financial reasons is another thing. Occasionally the two groups intersect, but there are plenty of cases where someone is living in their van/car so they can afford to stay in or near a location they can’t otherwise afford. Some people have major debt, medical expenses, family situations etc that drove the original decision. Some people decide to start posting about their car life because why not? But don’t confuse the glitzy social media version of van life for the average experience.
      - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
        Yes, but you can’t really tell who is one category or the other. We also have no idea what the average experience is. For non-stealth campers, it’s much easier to tell.
        haswell 3y ago
        Having spent quite a bit of time on the road, it’s usually pretty easy to spot the difference. That is if you even notice the stealth campers (to your point). But that’s really the original point - most people don’t notice the car dwelling locals, who spend a lot of their time making sure they aren’t noticed.
        seanmcdirmid 3y ago
        We have an RV problem so we’ve also gotten good at picking out stealth campers, not that it matter much since I really don’t mind someone who is just sleeping in our neighborhood if they aren’t doing anything crazy. People sleeping in cars are also common, and pretty easy to spot since unlike a van, it isn’t common to block out all windows in a car. I’m guessing those are all economic cases.
  - huytersd 3y ago
    No. Some people like the idea of a semi nomadic lifestyle enough that they would prefer it to living in a mansion overlooking the ocean.
  - mgraczyk 3y ago
    I know at least 3 people who spent the last few years living in a van while making over $200k a year. Mostly to travel, but some just enjoy the lifestyle.
- FireBeyond 3y ago
  > There is definitely a lot of van life/stealth campers going on here in Seattle, it isn’t hard to notice. But judging by their social media videos, is it fair to call them homeless? It seems like they chose that lifestyle rather than having it forced on them (or maybe it’s a mixture of both?). This isn't referring to the ones who make social media videos about their lifestyle choices. This is people living in a van because while they've lost housing, they still have a vehicle. The people sleeping in a car at the back of a Walmart parking lot, with a laundry basket beside them on the passenger seat.
  - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
    The statistics don’t really differentiate, which makes the problem harder to pick apart.
- justinator 3y ago
  My city has many trust funds kids living like the poors in a fantasy world (and in >$100k built out vans), but I don’t think that’s what we’re talking about with these stats.
  - latchkey 3y ago
    > trust funds kids I'm curious why you had to say that?
    - justinator 3y ago
      It succinctly describes the generational wealth endowed upon them, rather than earned wealth.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
keid 3y ago
I and, coincidentally and separately a long-time friend, were homeless for a year while undergraduates. It was a financial necessity to stay in school full time (while working part-time) and not take out student loans. That was over 40 years ago. We both went on get Ph.D.s and become part of the middle class. As homeless students we were a rarity, but it wasn't unheard of--a former roommate student camped out of his car for half a year--just couldn't give up that car.
qingcharles 3y ago
I'm essentially homeless. I'm living on the free will of an extremely kind landlord who let me stay in his empty house until it is sold (which it is now, waiting on closing). I can't get a regular job for another 12 months until my immigration status is resolved, as my USA SSN won't allow it right now. I do work 16 hours a day though on a number of projects that I'm trying to start.

seanmcdirmid 3y ago

There is definitely a lot of van life/stealth campers going on here in Seattle, it isn’t hard to notice. But judging by their social media videos, is it fair to call them homeless? It seems like they chose that lifestyle rather than having it forced on them (or maybe it’s a mixture of both?). Van life is a huge difference from the RVs, who don’t really care about stealth, they just come in, deflate their tires, and call some curb+sidewalk their home, pile up random possessions on the sidewalk to make it impassable. This category is usually drug related, so not hard to notice. There is also the working poor who become homeless unrelated to drugs, who are living out of their cars. We really should prioritize those cases, which is easy enough to handle with just housing. They don’t need drug addiction treatment, they aren’t going to burn down the home you give them in a few weeks. But all our money is going to the former and not much is prioritized for the latter, which is a huge shame. I think we should hugely prioritize sober shelters and housing that have strict rules, it would really help the working homeless (none of them want to bunk with drug addicts for good reason, which also keeps them from getting help).

wwtrv 3y ago
> It seems like they chose that lifestyle By that definition me not living in a mansion overlooking the ocean is also a lifestyle choice. I doubt that many people in cities would live in vans if housing wasn't so unaffordable.
- seanmcdirmid 3y ago
  Again, check out the social media. If you decide to live in a van while working a $100k/year remote job, it’s a lifestyle choice.
  - haswell 3y ago
    The social media van life trend is one thing. People choosing to live in their cars for financial reasons is another thing. Occasionally the two groups intersect, but there are plenty of cases where someone is living in their van/car so they can afford to stay in or near a location they can’t otherwise afford. Some people have major debt, medical expenses, family situations etc that drove the original decision. Some people decide to start posting about their car life because why not? But don’t confuse the glitzy social media version of van life for the average experience.
    - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
      Yes, but you can’t really tell who is one category or the other. We also have no idea what the average experience is. For non-stealth campers, it’s much easier to tell.
      - haswell 3y ago
        Having spent quite a bit of time on the road, it’s usually pretty easy to spot the difference. That is if you even notice the stealth campers (to your point). But that’s really the original point - most people don’t notice the car dwelling locals, who spend a lot of their time making sure they aren’t noticed.
        seanmcdirmid 3y ago
        We have an RV problem so we’ve also gotten good at picking out stealth campers, not that it matter much since I really don’t mind someone who is just sleeping in our neighborhood if they aren’t doing anything crazy. People sleeping in cars are also common, and pretty easy to spot since unlike a van, it isn’t common to block out all windows in a car. I’m guessing those are all economic cases.
- huytersd 3y ago
  No. Some people like the idea of a semi nomadic lifestyle enough that they would prefer it to living in a mansion overlooking the ocean.
- mgraczyk 3y ago
  I know at least 3 people who spent the last few years living in a van while making over $200k a year. Mostly to travel, but some just enjoy the lifestyle.
FireBeyond 3y ago
> There is definitely a lot of van life/stealth campers going on here in Seattle, it isn’t hard to notice. But judging by their social media videos, is it fair to call them homeless? It seems like they chose that lifestyle rather than having it forced on them (or maybe it’s a mixture of both?). This isn't referring to the ones who make social media videos about their lifestyle choices. This is people living in a van because while they've lost housing, they still have a vehicle. The people sleeping in a car at the back of a Walmart parking lot, with a laundry basket beside them on the passenger seat.
- seanmcdirmid 3y ago
  The statistics don’t really differentiate, which makes the problem harder to pick apart.
justinator 3y ago
My city has many trust funds kids living like the poors in a fantasy world (and in >$100k built out vans), but I don’t think that’s what we’re talking about with these stats.
- latchkey 3y ago
  > trust funds kids I'm curious why you had to say that?
  - justinator 3y ago
    It succinctly describes the generational wealth endowed upon them, rather than earned wealth.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]

keid 3y ago

I and, coincidentally and separately a long-time friend, were homeless for a year while undergraduates. It was a financial necessity to stay in school full time (while working part-time) and not take out student loans. That was over 40 years ago. We both went on get Ph.D.s and become part of the middle class. As homeless students we were a rarity, but it wasn't unheard of--a former roommate student camped out of his car for half a year--just couldn't give up that car.

qingcharles 3y ago

I'm essentially homeless. I'm living on the free will of an extremely kind landlord who let me stay in his empty house until it is sold (which it is now, waiting on closing). I can't get a regular job for another 12 months until my immigration status is resolved, as my USA SSN won't allow it right now. I do work 16 hours a day though on a number of projects that I'm trying to start.