4 ms·

Yes! Nobody is abusing protease inhibitors to get high. (That's my go-to example because I got anti-viral eye drops OTC in France.)

ceejayoz 3y ago
> Nobody is abusing protease inhibitors to get high. But overuse of them will cause antiviral resistance. Same problem we've had with antibiotics.
- thedaly 3y ago
  > Same problem we've had with antibiotics. I suspect the much more impactful driver of antibiotic resistance would be the antibiotics feed to live stock in mass.
  - ceejayoz 3y ago
    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/uk-5-year-antimicrobial-resistance-strategy-2013-to-2018 https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/uk-5-year-antimic... Paragraph 2.1 of the main PDF on that page, on page 8: > Increasing scientific evidence suggests that the clinical issues with antimicrobial resistance that we face in human medicine are primarily the result of antibiotic use in people, rather than the use of antibiotics in animals.
- torstenvl 3y ago
  Is there any evidence of this being a problem? Is antiviral resistance more prevalent in France (or other countries that don't require a doctor to prescribe medication of this nature) than in the U.S.?
  - ceejayoz 3y ago
    Evidence, yes. Google turns up a lot more on antibiotic use than antiviral; France has had similar issues there. (I suspect the difference in availability reflects the faster spread of viral disease, making per-country isolation stats tougher. See, for example, how fast Omicron went world-wide.) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7651446/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7651446/ > In France, antimicrobial consumption (AC) has been high for many decades in both hospitals and the community. Consumption within the community is 30% higher than the mean European rate and 2–3 times higher than the rates in countries with very low consumption and resistance levels, such as Scandinavian countries. Given the similar mechanisms, they're likely to have the same issues with antivirals as they do with antibiotics.
    - torstenvl 3y ago
      You said the answer was "yes," but the rest of your response indicates that the answer is "no." Dishonesty is not cool.
      - ceejayoz 3y ago
        We have evidence antiviral existence exists. We have evidence antimicrobial resistance stems from overuse and incomplete courses of the medications. We have evidence that easy access leads to more usage of these agents. I provided specific evidence of France's antimicrobial consumption being higher than the rest of Europe. What evidence would you accept? Is there evidence you'd like to highlight in the other direction?
        torstenvl 3y ago
        >>> But overuse of them will cause antiviral resistance. >> Is there any evidence of this being a problem? Is antiviral resistance more prevalent in France...? > Evidence, yes. Either present evidence that France has increased rates of antiviral resistance, or stop gaslighting. Dishonesty is not acceptable behavior, and is not excused by your mere desire to answer a different question about antibiotic resistance.
        JumpCrisscross 3y ago
        > Dishonesty is not acceptable behavior Drop this crap and just debate like an adult. You may have a point. But it’s difficult to see if you’re flipping out in the corner.
        torstenvl 3y ago
        This may be a cultural difference. From my perspective, it is not adult to tolerate dishonesty. Being clear that such behavior is unacceptable is not flipping out, it is a social obligation. When people are evasive, or pretend to answer one question by talking about a different one, that is not debating like an adult. It is toxic and prevents genuine discussion.
kube-system 3y ago
Abuse risk is only one of many risks that drugs may pose.
Scoundreller 3y ago
You talking about acyclovir eye drops or Trifluridine eye drops? Because neither of those are protease inhibitors.

ceejayoz 3y ago

> Nobody is abusing protease inhibitors to get high. But overuse of them will cause antiviral resistance. Same problem we've had with antibiotics.

thedaly 3y ago
> Same problem we've had with antibiotics. I suspect the much more impactful driver of antibiotic resistance would be the antibiotics feed to live stock in mass.
- ceejayoz 3y ago
  https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/uk-5-year-antimicrobial-resistance-strategy-2013-to-2018 https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/uk-5-year-antimic... Paragraph 2.1 of the main PDF on that page, on page 8: > Increasing scientific evidence suggests that the clinical issues with antimicrobial resistance that we face in human medicine are primarily the result of antibiotic use in people, rather than the use of antibiotics in animals.
torstenvl 3y ago
Is there any evidence of this being a problem? Is antiviral resistance more prevalent in France (or other countries that don't require a doctor to prescribe medication of this nature) than in the U.S.?
- ceejayoz 3y ago
  Evidence, yes. Google turns up a lot more on antibiotic use than antiviral; France has had similar issues there. (I suspect the difference in availability reflects the faster spread of viral disease, making per-country isolation stats tougher. See, for example, how fast Omicron went world-wide.) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7651446/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7651446/ > In France, antimicrobial consumption (AC) has been high for many decades in both hospitals and the community. Consumption within the community is 30% higher than the mean European rate and 2–3 times higher than the rates in countries with very low consumption and resistance levels, such as Scandinavian countries. Given the similar mechanisms, they're likely to have the same issues with antivirals as they do with antibiotics.
  - torstenvl 3y ago
    You said the answer was "yes," but the rest of your response indicates that the answer is "no." Dishonesty is not cool.
    - ceejayoz 3y ago
      We have evidence antiviral existence exists. We have evidence antimicrobial resistance stems from overuse and incomplete courses of the medications. We have evidence that easy access leads to more usage of these agents. I provided specific evidence of France's antimicrobial consumption being higher than the rest of Europe. What evidence would you accept? Is there evidence you'd like to highlight in the other direction?
      - torstenvl 3y ago
        >>> But overuse of them will cause antiviral resistance. >> Is there any evidence of this being a problem? Is antiviral resistance more prevalent in France...? > Evidence, yes. Either present evidence that France has increased rates of antiviral resistance, or stop gaslighting. Dishonesty is not acceptable behavior, and is not excused by your mere desire to answer a different question about antibiotic resistance.
        JumpCrisscross 3y ago
        > Dishonesty is not acceptable behavior Drop this crap and just debate like an adult. You may have a point. But it’s difficult to see if you’re flipping out in the corner.
        torstenvl 3y ago
        This may be a cultural difference. From my perspective, it is not adult to tolerate dishonesty. Being clear that such behavior is unacceptable is not flipping out, it is a social obligation. When people are evasive, or pretend to answer one question by talking about a different one, that is not debating like an adult. It is toxic and prevents genuine discussion.

kube-system 3y ago

Abuse risk is only one of many risks that drugs may pose.

Scoundreller 3y ago

You talking about acyclovir eye drops or Trifluridine eye drops? Because neither of those are protease inhibitors.