6 ms·

I had the opposite experience. Chemists on my family, so everything was dangerous. The PVC tubes were dangerous because of plasticisers, epoxy resins combined w

I had the opposite experience. Chemists on my family, so everything was dangerous. The PVC tubes were dangerous because of plasticisers, epoxy resins combined with other chemicals. Flame retardants on foams a big no no. Teflon pans getting overheated being nasty so trow them away. Pesticides and herbicides forbidden at home. It was certainly a pain is the ass while growing up. On the other hand, my family members are getting old (nearing 100) without cancer, Parkinson, Alzheimer or things like that, preserving mobility and autonomy.

codeisawesome 3y ago
Would be cool if there was a single site with an easy-to-use but comprehensive index of all such materials found in and around an average home that would make a chemist anxious, along with the safe alternative.
- getwiththeprog 3y ago
  If an individual does this, then they should be prepared to be sued. For example, say that Teflon in toxic and you will surely be sued. There are federal agencies that are supposed to monitor thse things, but in some countries these institutions are broken. IMHO Europe does the best job of regulating toxic substances. Even in other jurisdictions, there are manufacturers guides that are often not read or adhered to. I think this info is mostly out there and is able to be found. Yes, I agree that a comprehensive global index would be a great thing - so start with checking there (I forget where their index is!) And don't forget, alcohol, tobacco, driving and sugar are by far the biggest killers in our modern societies!
- pjc50 3y ago
  That's how you get the Prop 65 warning nonsense. Besides, chemists themselves have varying ideas of personal safety, depending on what they work with and how flammable/explosive/toxic/all of the above it is. The only real solution, unfortunately, is for the regulatory authorities to make and publish clear evidence based decisions.
  - mutualaidwins 3y ago
    [dead]
- CalRobert 3y ago
  There are tools like EPA Safer Choice and various apps built around helping people find safer choices when shopping, for what it's worth. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EPA_Safer_Choice https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EPA_Safer_Choice
pxc 3y ago
On my mom's side of the family, there runs a genetic illness which is autosomal dominant, and inevitably disabling. If you have the gene, you will go blind before you reach old age. There are no treatments and the is no cure. My dad, who is strict and obsessive about his diet, exercise, and overall health is right now facing two large, cancerous, deadly tumors. They are the result of a complication, decades later, from a then-undiscovered disease transmitted to him through a life-saving blood transfusion after a traffic accident in which he was not at all. It seems clear to me that whether we retain autonomy, mobility, and health is hardly up to us. Disability and ill health are things that can come for any of us, and when they do, it's not always about the choices we've made in life. Securing mobility and autonomy isn't about assuring you will always be free of disability— it's about learning to do so within disability, which is practically inevitable.
- kuhewa 3y ago
  > It seems clear to me that whether we retain autonomy, mobility, and health is hardly up to us. Things we have agency over are not sufficient, but are necessary, to retain healthspan into old age or at least maximise our capacity for it, despite us being at the whim of stochastic events or possibly inexorable progressive disease.
- lm28469 3y ago
  > It seems clear to me that whether we retain autonomy, mobility, and health is hardly up to us. There are ways to dramatically increase or decrease your odds. There are no hard guarantees but statistically it's extremely clear that your lifestyle is a huge differentiator. Obesity and diabetes are easy to avoid for the vast majority of people and will absolutely fuck you up. Even cancers are like 70%+ lifestyle/environmental related. Just like you have people who survive car crashes in 1980s cars while not wearing a seatbelt and people who die in a 2023 car with 12 airbags while wearing a seat belt. Your conclusion shouldn't be that seatbelts don't do much My gf's dad was on the way down, 65, getting fat, low mobility, out of breath all the time, &c. we motivated him, he lost 35kg+ in a year, no more shortness of breath, much better mobility, all health metrics improved, it doesn't mean he'll live longer, but he'll for sure live better
iforgotpassword 3y ago
It's often those two extremes, and I like to claim your parents' type are the smarter ones. The others feel like they are above everybody else; everybody else just has unjustified fears because they are stupid and don't understand, and sure while there were enough instances in the past where something turned out to be a really bad idea much later, it never crosses their mind that they could make the same mistake, or any mistake at all. Just being exceedingly smart (according to themselves) makes everything they do and say true, safe and right. It can happen at all levels, not just to "stupid people". It's just that those higher up the education chain can create far more disastrous results.
lupusreal 3y ago
Teflon pans being dangerous is a safe bet. Teflon is famously inert and sticks to nothing... so how did they stick it to the pan? The chemicals they use for that must be very reactive and it's a good bet to assume anything like that is toxic.
- dappermanneke 3y ago
  oh boy
- lm28469 3y ago
  Even if they were perfectly safe it's a terrible product. They're the closest you can get to disposable pans, at best you'll get 5-10 years out of them, then you have to throw the whole thing away because the top 0.01mm is damaged
- jansan 3y ago
  That did not convince me.
- cma 3y ago
  They do use a chemical primer for making Teflon stick, but also surface roughening, like how inert glass glaze sticks to pottery. Though glass and pottery are both ceramics so I believe there is a chemical/material bond as well that doesn't take a primer. But you also have things like porcelain sink that is ceramic on metal, and even porcelain metal cookware that are too and would defy your statement of inert on metal == bad automatically. Some metals have a self oxidized coating that is inert and stuck on, for example titanium cookware used in hiking.
  - lupusreal 3y ago
    I've seen scraped up Teflon pans that seemed to have some sort of crap between the coating and the metal; I don't think it's just a mechanical bond. Anyway, with how gentle you need to treat those pans I don't think they're worth it, even if safe. Stainless or cast iron aren't hard to clean and are essentially idiot proof, so that's what I like to use.

codeisawesome 3y ago

Would be cool if there was a single site with an easy-to-use but comprehensive index of all such materials found in and around an average home that would make a chemist anxious, along with the safe alternative.

getwiththeprog 3y ago
If an individual does this, then they should be prepared to be sued. For example, say that Teflon in toxic and you will surely be sued. There are federal agencies that are supposed to monitor thse things, but in some countries these institutions are broken. IMHO Europe does the best job of regulating toxic substances. Even in other jurisdictions, there are manufacturers guides that are often not read or adhered to. I think this info is mostly out there and is able to be found. Yes, I agree that a comprehensive global index would be a great thing - so start with checking there (I forget where their index is!) And don't forget, alcohol, tobacco, driving and sugar are by far the biggest killers in our modern societies!
pjc50 3y ago
That's how you get the Prop 65 warning nonsense. Besides, chemists themselves have varying ideas of personal safety, depending on what they work with and how flammable/explosive/toxic/all of the above it is. The only real solution, unfortunately, is for the regulatory authorities to make and publish clear evidence based decisions.
- mutualaidwins 3y ago
  [dead]
CalRobert 3y ago
There are tools like EPA Safer Choice and various apps built around helping people find safer choices when shopping, for what it's worth. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EPA_Safer_Choice https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EPA_Safer_Choice

pxc 3y ago

On my mom's side of the family, there runs a genetic illness which is autosomal dominant, and inevitably disabling. If you have the gene, you will go blind before you reach old age. There are no treatments and the is no cure. My dad, who is strict and obsessive about his diet, exercise, and overall health is right now facing two large, cancerous, deadly tumors. They are the result of a complication, decades later, from a then-undiscovered disease transmitted to him through a life-saving blood transfusion after a traffic accident in which he was not at all. It seems clear to me that whether we retain autonomy, mobility, and health is hardly up to us. Disability and ill health are things that can come for any of us, and when they do, it's not always about the choices we've made in life. Securing mobility and autonomy isn't about assuring you will always be free of disability— it's about learning to do so within disability, which is practically inevitable.

kuhewa 3y ago
> It seems clear to me that whether we retain autonomy, mobility, and health is hardly up to us. Things we have agency over are not sufficient, but are necessary, to retain healthspan into old age or at least maximise our capacity for it, despite us being at the whim of stochastic events or possibly inexorable progressive disease.
lm28469 3y ago
> It seems clear to me that whether we retain autonomy, mobility, and health is hardly up to us. There are ways to dramatically increase or decrease your odds. There are no hard guarantees but statistically it's extremely clear that your lifestyle is a huge differentiator. Obesity and diabetes are easy to avoid for the vast majority of people and will absolutely fuck you up. Even cancers are like 70%+ lifestyle/environmental related. Just like you have people who survive car crashes in 1980s cars while not wearing a seatbelt and people who die in a 2023 car with 12 airbags while wearing a seat belt. Your conclusion shouldn't be that seatbelts don't do much My gf's dad was on the way down, 65, getting fat, low mobility, out of breath all the time, &c. we motivated him, he lost 35kg+ in a year, no more shortness of breath, much better mobility, all health metrics improved, it doesn't mean he'll live longer, but he'll for sure live better

iforgotpassword 3y ago

It's often those two extremes, and I like to claim your parents' type are the smarter ones. The others feel like they are above everybody else; everybody else just has unjustified fears because they are stupid and don't understand, and sure while there were enough instances in the past where something turned out to be a really bad idea much later, it never crosses their mind that they could make the same mistake, or any mistake at all. Just being exceedingly smart (according to themselves) makes everything they do and say true, safe and right. It can happen at all levels, not just to "stupid people". It's just that those higher up the education chain can create far more disastrous results.

lupusreal 3y ago

Teflon pans being dangerous is a safe bet. Teflon is famously inert and sticks to nothing... so how did they stick it to the pan? The chemicals they use for that must be very reactive and it's a good bet to assume anything like that is toxic.

dappermanneke 3y ago
oh boy
lm28469 3y ago
Even if they were perfectly safe it's a terrible product. They're the closest you can get to disposable pans, at best you'll get 5-10 years out of them, then you have to throw the whole thing away because the top 0.01mm is damaged
jansan 3y ago
That did not convince me.
cma 3y ago
They do use a chemical primer for making Teflon stick, but also surface roughening, like how inert glass glaze sticks to pottery. Though glass and pottery are both ceramics so I believe there is a chemical/material bond as well that doesn't take a primer. But you also have things like porcelain sink that is ceramic on metal, and even porcelain metal cookware that are too and would defy your statement of inert on metal == bad automatically. Some metals have a self oxidized coating that is inert and stuck on, for example titanium cookware used in hiking.
- lupusreal 3y ago
  I've seen scraped up Teflon pans that seemed to have some sort of crap between the coating and the metal; I don't think it's just a mechanical bond. Anyway, with how gentle you need to treat those pans I don't think they're worth it, even if safe. Stainless or cast iron aren't hard to clean and are essentially idiot proof, so that's what I like to use.