6 ms·

Looking into the Stadia Controller Bluetooth Mode Website

168 points by rcarmo 3y ago

codyogden 3y ago
Heads up: this post is from January 2023. Google recently extended the ability to convert controllers to Bluetooth mode by one year. The new deadline is December 31, 2024.
- ShamelessC 3y ago
  Am I crazy for thinking they should release a tool that does this offline and then just end support for it after those dates?
  - codyogden 3y ago
    Nope. It's something I suggested the other day: https://twitter.com/killedbygoogle/status/1735913152662196468 https://twitter.com/killedbygoogle/status/173591315266219646...
  - londons_explore 3y ago
    The webpage is pretty much self-contained... You could probably just save the page for offline use in your browser and have it work forever.
    - Grazester 3y ago
      Someone already did this and posted it on GitHub about a year now
  - throwuxiytayq 3y ago
    People who suggest this fail to understand that to a google-brained PM it would be a complete and utter career-destroying faux pas to suggest that they should make a non-web app, even for a purpose as trivial as a firmware upgrade.
    - Kwpolska 3y ago
      Doing it via the browser means they get support for Linux out-of-the-box. If this was a long-term thing, they wouldn’t need to care about things like Apple switching architectures for the umpteenth time.
    - nyanpasu64 3y ago
      Bring back the Windows Google Talk client...
  - dvngnt_ 3y ago
    yes! that's not the "google way"
    - ShamelessC 3y ago
      Ahh you’re right. Don’t know what I was thinking.
- vincheezel 3y ago
  Why even have a deadline? Why not just release the firmware to the public? What does google gain from stopping people converting stadia controllers to Bluetooth in the future? I can already see issues like people who bought new old stock who can no longer do anything with them. The best case scenario is they release a toolkit to flash your own firmware so people can hack on the now completely otherwise useless controllers.
  - lima 3y ago
    > What does google gain from stopping people converting stadia controllers to Bluetooth in the future? It means they can delete the code from the monorepo.
    - kevincox 3y ago
      The hardware isn't changing. If they aren't going to provide bugfixes and support they can just archive the built artifacts and publish a torrent or public Google Drive folder.
      - Tyr42 3y ago
        They do have that, and I think it'll be on GitHub indefinitely, but Google is hosting a live site which can reflash the controller. Eventually the framework it's running will be deprecated and someone will clean it up.
        kevincox 3y ago
        All of the flashing logic is client-side. As a bonus they could archive the whole site. But even if just the firmware blobs were available it would be a huge win as developing another flasher is probably pretty easy with the provided documentation. I suspect that it wouldn't be hard to identify and download most of the firmware that could be used (I don't think there are many controller revisions) but distributing those will be a legal grey area without a proper license from Google which presumably owns the copyright.
  - 3y ago
Reason077 3y ago
Still a great shame about Stadia. Really cool technology that never had a chance to reach its potential. Killed too soon!
- mattlondon 3y ago
  I switched to Geforce now and did not miss stadia. The biggest problem with stadia was that they tried to make it into a store/ecosystem where you could only play things you paid for specifically for stadia. Got a huge steam library? Tough. Geforce now just let's you play games you already own (with some limitations based on publisher deals, developer support FWIU etc). And it's just as good as stadia was in terms of user experience IMHO having used both.
  - p_l 3y ago
    A big issue of stadia, and a huge advantage for GeForce Now, was the environment they provided for the game. GeForce Now runs essentially normal Windows VMs with GPU passthrough to some of their beefier multiuser cards and a custom remote desktop mechanism. There's no special porting involved, it's essentially the same setup, but extra optimised, as what people setup themselves using various cloud providers. Thus GeForce Now has close to zero porting burden and could just attach Windows Steam client integration. Stadia didn't have that - I have no idea how it was actually implemented, but someone mentioned that Stadia version of Cyberpunk 2077 was "the PC version, no porting". Except the Stadia version is the otherwise unreleased Linux port of the game, using Vulkan for rendering (unlike DirectX on normal PC release). It had to use a custom input, sound, etc implementation for whatever interfaces Stadia provided. FWIW, AFAIK that build also worked on normal Linux with X11 so long as you had Vulkan drivers. But yes, the big hurdle was that Stadia required a Linux binary, possibly also required Vulkan. Every game they wanted to add had to be effectively ported.
    - dmitshur 3y ago
      Not having Windows as a dependency was almost like optimizing for future proofing and longevity, ironically. If Stadia were to last longer, so could the games that were made available on it. The game launcher experience was fully in their control to innovate on. GeForce Now has Windows and various game stores as hard dependencies, which feels like in theory optimizing for the short term and limits how smooth the user experience can be made. But in practice it works fine, and the reduced overhead for individual games maybe is better at least for medium term too.
redder23 3y ago
Did the not shut Stadia down? This is ridiculous to not just open it up and let people to WTF they want to with it.
- mattlondon 3y ago
  It was closely tied/integrated into Google hardware and data center architecture as far as I understand - it is not just some binary you can run on a raspberry pi. We see a web UI, but that is the tip of the iceberg.
  - redder23 3y ago
    I not thought about the hardware and servers, I thought about the controller because the article was about that controller. Did the not took them even back when the shut Stadia down. Like seriously they could just open source the controller both soft and hardware instead the put stupid restrictions on a failed product.
nzoschke 3y ago
Stadia was wild. I got the Cyberpunk 2077 bundle which came with the game, controller and a chrome cast. Gaming with a little HDMI WIFI puck and a WIFI controller felt very “cyberpunk” itself. Like buying some new tech to hack into the mainframe. The Stadia version of Cyberpunk 2077 was basically the PC version which was far less glitchy than consoles. Years later they issued a full refund for the bundle and unlocked the controller. The controller upgrade process was something I never imagined a browser could do. Thank you OP for reverse engineering and preserving things! And thank you Google for pushing the cutting edge. Crazy to think how much went into Stadia only to be abandoned.
- kccqzy 3y ago
  As always, there was (and still is) so much technological marvel inside Google and so many highly talented people working inside Google that I felt sorry that these marvel never gets to see the light of day and efforts by these folks ultimately wasted by inept management and terrible marketing. Years ago Google was the coolest place to work at because of the tech and the people, and Google did so many things that everyone could find the most interesting thing to them. Nowadays the list of cool companies is a lot longer and more diversified. And switching companies is a bit more friction than switching teams. I sometimes wonder if more cool tech could emerge faster if there was a new Big Tech with old Google values, with better management and a new coolness.
  - coldpie 3y ago
    > terrible marketing Remember when they said their product will follow in the historic tradition of E.T. for Atari 2600, the Power Glove for NES, and the Sega Dreamcast? I guess they were more right than they knew. Google is a laughingstock. I can't imagine working there if you have any pride or passion for your work. https://www.gamingbible.com/news/games-gamers-recall-when-google-marketed-stadia-using-three-failed-products-20210209 https://www.gamingbible.com/news/games-gamers-recall-when-go...
    - philistine 3y ago
      The VGHF helped with setting up the display for that event. Frank Cifaldi, founder of the VGHF, has explained the sordid tale of that display on some podcasts. Basically, the VGHF was hired to make a display. They provided a draft version. Google's people came back and were adamant that the display had to have those failed products as well. The VGHF repeatedly warned Google of the horrible optics of showing those products. Google went ahead. To this day, Frank does not know why Google wanted these products. My guess? Those products had great SEO on Google Search and YouTube. Lots of people watched videos about them. The managerial class at Google was uninterested by the fact those products had tons of searches and views because they sucked!
srmarm 3y ago
It'd be cool if they allowed you to redefine the endpoint for the wifi bit of the controller which was the interesting part of the tech IMHO.
- nzoschke 3y ago
  I had the same thought. The WIFI controller was magic compared to Bluetooth pairing to a single computer. Maybe with OPs work we can study and hack the original firmware.
koinedad 3y ago
I wish they pushed an update to fix the pairing bug. Once you update to support Bluetooth and pair it it works the first time and will stay connected but provide no input after reconnecting.
tripdout 3y ago
If the firmware is signed, how is flashing other firmware accomplished?

168 points by rcarmo 3y ago

Heads up: this post is from January 2023. Google recently extended the ability to convert controllers to Bluetooth mode by one year. The new deadline is December 31, 2024.

ShamelessC 3y ago
Am I crazy for thinking they should release a tool that does this offline and then just end support for it after those dates?
- codyogden 3y ago
  Nope. It's something I suggested the other day: https://twitter.com/killedbygoogle/status/1735913152662196468 https://twitter.com/killedbygoogle/status/173591315266219646...
- londons_explore 3y ago
  The webpage is pretty much self-contained... You could probably just save the page for offline use in your browser and have it work forever.
  - Grazester 3y ago
    Someone already did this and posted it on GitHub about a year now
- throwuxiytayq 3y ago
  People who suggest this fail to understand that to a google-brained PM it would be a complete and utter career-destroying faux pas to suggest that they should make a non-web app, even for a purpose as trivial as a firmware upgrade.
  - Kwpolska 3y ago
    Doing it via the browser means they get support for Linux out-of-the-box. If this was a long-term thing, they wouldn’t need to care about things like Apple switching architectures for the umpteenth time.
  - nyanpasu64 3y ago
    Bring back the Windows Google Talk client...
- dvngnt_ 3y ago
  yes! that's not the "google way"
  - ShamelessC 3y ago
    Ahh you’re right. Don’t know what I was thinking.
vincheezel 3y ago
Why even have a deadline? Why not just release the firmware to the public? What does google gain from stopping people converting stadia controllers to Bluetooth in the future? I can already see issues like people who bought new old stock who can no longer do anything with them. The best case scenario is they release a toolkit to flash your own firmware so people can hack on the now completely otherwise useless controllers.
- lima 3y ago
  > What does google gain from stopping people converting stadia controllers to Bluetooth in the future? It means they can delete the code from the monorepo.
  - kevincox 3y ago
    The hardware isn't changing. If they aren't going to provide bugfixes and support they can just archive the built artifacts and publish a torrent or public Google Drive folder.
    - Tyr42 3y ago
      They do have that, and I think it'll be on GitHub indefinitely, but Google is hosting a live site which can reflash the controller. Eventually the framework it's running will be deprecated and someone will clean it up.
      - kevincox 3y ago
        All of the flashing logic is client-side. As a bonus they could archive the whole site. But even if just the firmware blobs were available it would be a huge win as developing another flasher is probably pretty easy with the provided documentation. I suspect that it wouldn't be hard to identify and download most of the firmware that could be used (I don't think there are many controller revisions) but distributing those will be a legal grey area without a proper license from Google which presumably owns the copyright.
- 3y ago

Reason077 3y ago

Still a great shame about Stadia. Really cool technology that never had a chance to reach its potential. Killed too soon!

mattlondon 3y ago
I switched to Geforce now and did not miss stadia. The biggest problem with stadia was that they tried to make it into a store/ecosystem where you could only play things you paid for specifically for stadia. Got a huge steam library? Tough. Geforce now just let's you play games you already own (with some limitations based on publisher deals, developer support FWIU etc). And it's just as good as stadia was in terms of user experience IMHO having used both.
- p_l 3y ago
  A big issue of stadia, and a huge advantage for GeForce Now, was the environment they provided for the game. GeForce Now runs essentially normal Windows VMs with GPU passthrough to some of their beefier multiuser cards and a custom remote desktop mechanism. There's no special porting involved, it's essentially the same setup, but extra optimised, as what people setup themselves using various cloud providers. Thus GeForce Now has close to zero porting burden and could just attach Windows Steam client integration. Stadia didn't have that - I have no idea how it was actually implemented, but someone mentioned that Stadia version of Cyberpunk 2077 was "the PC version, no porting". Except the Stadia version is the otherwise unreleased Linux port of the game, using Vulkan for rendering (unlike DirectX on normal PC release). It had to use a custom input, sound, etc implementation for whatever interfaces Stadia provided. FWIW, AFAIK that build also worked on normal Linux with X11 so long as you had Vulkan drivers. But yes, the big hurdle was that Stadia required a Linux binary, possibly also required Vulkan. Every game they wanted to add had to be effectively ported.
  - dmitshur 3y ago
    Not having Windows as a dependency was almost like optimizing for future proofing and longevity, ironically. If Stadia were to last longer, so could the games that were made available on it. The game launcher experience was fully in their control to innovate on. GeForce Now has Windows and various game stores as hard dependencies, which feels like in theory optimizing for the short term and limits how smooth the user experience can be made. But in practice it works fine, and the reduced overhead for individual games maybe is better at least for medium term too.

redder23 3y ago

Did the not shut Stadia down? This is ridiculous to not just open it up and let people to WTF they want to with it.

mattlondon 3y ago
It was closely tied/integrated into Google hardware and data center architecture as far as I understand - it is not just some binary you can run on a raspberry pi. We see a web UI, but that is the tip of the iceberg.
- redder23 3y ago
  I not thought about the hardware and servers, I thought about the controller because the article was about that controller. Did the not took them even back when the shut Stadia down. Like seriously they could just open source the controller both soft and hardware instead the put stupid restrictions on a failed product.

nzoschke 3y ago

Stadia was wild. I got the Cyberpunk 2077 bundle which came with the game, controller and a chrome cast. Gaming with a little HDMI WIFI puck and a WIFI controller felt very “cyberpunk” itself. Like buying some new tech to hack into the mainframe. The Stadia version of Cyberpunk 2077 was basically the PC version which was far less glitchy than consoles. Years later they issued a full refund for the bundle and unlocked the controller. The controller upgrade process was something I never imagined a browser could do. Thank you OP for reverse engineering and preserving things! And thank you Google for pushing the cutting edge. Crazy to think how much went into Stadia only to be abandoned.

kccqzy 3y ago
As always, there was (and still is) so much technological marvel inside Google and so many highly talented people working inside Google that I felt sorry that these marvel never gets to see the light of day and efforts by these folks ultimately wasted by inept management and terrible marketing. Years ago Google was the coolest place to work at because of the tech and the people, and Google did so many things that everyone could find the most interesting thing to them. Nowadays the list of cool companies is a lot longer and more diversified. And switching companies is a bit more friction than switching teams. I sometimes wonder if more cool tech could emerge faster if there was a new Big Tech with old Google values, with better management and a new coolness.
- coldpie 3y ago
  > terrible marketing Remember when they said their product will follow in the historic tradition of E.T. for Atari 2600, the Power Glove for NES, and the Sega Dreamcast? I guess they were more right than they knew. Google is a laughingstock. I can't imagine working there if you have any pride or passion for your work. https://www.gamingbible.com/news/games-gamers-recall-when-google-marketed-stadia-using-three-failed-products-20210209 https://www.gamingbible.com/news/games-gamers-recall-when-go...
  - philistine 3y ago
    The VGHF helped with setting up the display for that event. Frank Cifaldi, founder of the VGHF, has explained the sordid tale of that display on some podcasts. Basically, the VGHF was hired to make a display. They provided a draft version. Google's people came back and were adamant that the display had to have those failed products as well. The VGHF repeatedly warned Google of the horrible optics of showing those products. Google went ahead. To this day, Frank does not know why Google wanted these products. My guess? Those products had great SEO on Google Search and YouTube. Lots of people watched videos about them. The managerial class at Google was uninterested by the fact those products had tons of searches and views because they sucked!

srmarm 3y ago

It'd be cool if they allowed you to redefine the endpoint for the wifi bit of the controller which was the interesting part of the tech IMHO.

nzoschke 3y ago
I had the same thought. The WIFI controller was magic compared to Bluetooth pairing to a single computer. Maybe with OPs work we can study and hack the original firmware.

koinedad 3y ago

I wish they pushed an update to fix the pairing bug. Once you update to support Bluetooth and pair it it works the first time and will stay connected but provide no input after reconnecting.

tripdout 3y ago

If the firmware is signed, how is flashing other firmware accomplished?