5 ms·

GM's CarPlay replacement software is off to a disastrous start

26 points by turquoisevar 3y ago

shermantanktop 3y ago
New software is buggy, news at eleven. Software made by a hardware company is buggy, also at eleven. Car software sucks, also at… There’s just no surprise here at all. This will all be improved (but not fixed) a year from now.
- NewJazz 3y ago
  If it does poorly enough maybe GM backtracks! One can hope that this dumpster fire persists.
- sergiomattei 3y ago
  I’m glad to cheer for its demise. CarPlay is an _awesome_ feature and important factor when making a purchase decision.
- iAMkenough 3y ago
  I still don't understand the benefit to an individual customer, and I don't buy that this implementation will be less distracting than Android Auto. Once the bugs are worked out, Android Auto users will still continue to see user improvements much faster than GM's custom Android build. It's only a matter of time until Google sunsets support for GM's current vehicles running their custom build. At that point, GM will either use that as leverage to get you to buy a new vehicle, and/or cave to user demand and reinstate Android Auto support in newer vehicles.
  - fyrn_ 3y ago
    I worry there isn't any value to the customer, and that this is really about taking back control of the software so they can sell subscriptions. We live in a world where seat heating was a subscription service in a luxury car after all.
- op00to 3y ago
  This is surprising because GM dumped a working solution for a non-working solution.
  - shermantanktop 3y ago
    I'm very familiar with this dynamic from work. "We're deprecating v1.0, and looking forward to announcing the release of v2.0 any month now. All past defects will now be marked as 'will not fix', and all future defects will be nonexistent, because we're really smart. If you are lucky enough to find a bug in 2.0, prepare for some gaslighting from an engineer who tells you that YOU are the problem because you have failed to rewrite your entire app around the new, poorly documented API. Oh, docs are a fast follow." But it's one thing to try that move on the captive customer base that is one's fellow engineers; surprised to see it done quite so boldly on the general public.
- gdevenyi 3y ago
  > There’s just no surprise here at all. This will all be improved (but not fixed) a year from now. No it won't, it'll be abandoned and unsupported like all the other terrible car software.
LeafItAlone 3y ago
Apple CarPlay and Android Auto were such great ideas; they were almost too true from the beginning announcements. But between slow adoption, weird differences of implementation, and automakers realizing they are missing out on important (tracking/data aggregation) touch points, we are headed back to where we started.
- bsder 3y ago
  Interfacing your phone to your car was always going to be a disaster. Your car updates never and has the absolute cheapest hardware from 5 years ago that the manufacturer could possibly dig up from the trash. Your phone updates continuously and generally has close to top of the line semiconductor technology in it. Marrying these two is a disaster that anybody can predict.
  - z2 3y ago
    My naive hope was just for the car to be a dumb second monitor, where the underlying standard just needs to have enough bandwidth and features like HDMI or Displayport, and then not need major changes for years and years despite the video out device evolving. Basic things like video out, audio out/in, night/day mode.
    - rgovostes 3y ago
      That is basically what CarPlay is, using proprietary streaming similar to AirPlay (which works wirelessly, not only over a cable). It’s slightly more sophisticated than a dumb audio/video/touch pipe: the phone can indicate different audio modes (music, navigation alert, etc.) and the car can send notifications (low on fuel, use dark mode), but these are optional.
    - thiht 3y ago
      That’s what CarPlay is. And probably Android Auto too I would guess?
  - gmac 3y ago
    This just isn’t true, though. CarPlay has worked beautifully for me the last 5 years.
willio58 3y ago
Such a bummer. Sorry to say this will be my reason for not buying a GM EV. I know it sounds dumb, but I just love CarPlay.
- istillwritecode 3y ago
  it's odd that you say that without having seen the competitor. This is evidence of belonging to a cult or being afraid of better things. Of course it's possible that the new one is shit, but I think I'll make my own mind up.
  - pfranz 3y ago
    It's odd you go straight to a trope about a cult. If I'm happy with something I don't always have the time, energy, or interest to seek out something better. It's completely unsurprising to expect the first generation of something like this, even if it was amazing, to have annoying flaws. Unfortunately, it doesn't sound amazing. Car companies have a long track record of disappointing infotainment systems and there's zero reason to expect anything better here. In fact, the problems in this article sound identical to the ones I had with Honda's most basic level infotainment system just a couple years ago. It would freeze and the only fix was turning off the car...a difficult solution on road trips. Asking the dealer about it, they said there was no update process for it--maybe a newer model year wouldn't have that issue?
    - shiroiuma 3y ago
      >It would freeze and the only fix was turning off the car...a difficult solution on road trips. Back in the days of manual transmissions, this wasn't so hard. I remember having to do this for some odd reason (don't remember) back in the 90s: just clutch in, turn off the ignition, restart the engine, clutch out. On my most recent car which had an infotainment system, there was some kind of three-button combination you could press to reboot the system without restarting the car.
      - pfranz 3y ago
ttt3ts 3y ago
9to5mac.com ... I will hold my judgment for a unbiased review.
superb_dev 3y ago
I wouldn’t bother with any car that doesn’t have CarPlay or Android Auto. Most car companies are just bad at building user interfaces, and my phone is already an excellent infotainment system. Why duplicate the work?
- moogly 3y ago
  I agree but for two issues with Android Auto/CarPlay that I hope they can fix, but might prove difficult since AA/CarPlay is, AFAIU, just a video feed: - for EVs, route planning since AA/CarPlay doesn't know anything about the SoC, and battery pre-conditioning since the car doesn't know anything about the navigation - likewise, no HUD integration with the navigation This only really matters for longer road trips though.
  - jamincan 3y ago
    One thing I've noticed with Android Auto in my Taos is that the turn-by-turn directions are displayed on the main driver's display (I don't have a HUD) when I am navigating in Google Maps, suggesting that there is some protocol for sharing the directions. It would be nice, though, to have the actual map be shared (the built-in nav has some cool integrations), and for commands to be transmitted back to Android Auto from the car - for example with steering wheel controls, or when low on charge/gas looking for a charging/gas station.
  - turquoisevar 3y ago
    EV route planning on CarPlay already exists, with the option to automatically plan charging stops and charging point usage information (e.g., x available spots etc.). Don’t know if it feeds anything back to help with preconditioning though. Sadly only a handful of manufacturers make use of this. Seems to be only Porsche Taycan and Ford Mustang Mach-E thus far(0) As for HUD integration, the next gen CarPlay concept showed that as a possibility, but the two concepts announced yesterday by Porsche and Aston Martin didn’t show that implementation[1]. 0: https://9to5mac.com/2023/08/19/ios-17-adds-real-time-charging-availability-info-for-ev-drivers/ https://9to5mac.com/2023/08/19/ios-17-adds-real-time-chargin... 1: https://9to5mac.com/2023/12/20/first-cars-with-next-generation-carplay-officially-announced/ https://9to5mac.com/2023/12/20/first-cars-with-next-generati...
NullPrefix 3y ago
Louis Rossmann did a video on this topic recently. His main point was that GM is removing CarPlay to get more money from customers by demanding a monthly fee for traffic data and other features that are already available on your CarPlay. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhh4rzImufs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhh4rzImufs
- bonton89 3y ago
  I assumed it was to track users and sell that data. Won't most people just endure the poorer experience of using their phone and ignore the half baked GM solution?
  - NullPrefix 3y ago
    some will pay for the half baked GM solution
whynotmaybe 3y ago
Car are becoming reliable and from what I can get EV need less maintenance. How are they gonna recoup that lost money, if people don't need to go to the dealership every now and then to change oil? Subscription all the way! Want map/gps? Free version has ad, 7.99/month to remove ads. And you want traffic prediction? Go for the premium at 9.99$! Music? Comes with free Spotify. Buy the premium through the car, gm gets a cut. I'm not smart enough to think of all the possibilities but the way I look at it, I'll stay with my own phone connected on Bluetooth and a 10$ phone holder.

26 points by turquoisevar 3y ago

New software is buggy, news at eleven. Software made by a hardware company is buggy, also at eleven. Car software sucks, also at… There’s just no surprise here at all. This will all be improved (but not fixed) a year from now.

NewJazz 3y ago
If it does poorly enough maybe GM backtracks! One can hope that this dumpster fire persists.
sergiomattei 3y ago
I’m glad to cheer for its demise. CarPlay is an _awesome_ feature and important factor when making a purchase decision.
iAMkenough 3y ago
I still don't understand the benefit to an individual customer, and I don't buy that this implementation will be less distracting than Android Auto. Once the bugs are worked out, Android Auto users will still continue to see user improvements much faster than GM's custom Android build. It's only a matter of time until Google sunsets support for GM's current vehicles running their custom build. At that point, GM will either use that as leverage to get you to buy a new vehicle, and/or cave to user demand and reinstate Android Auto support in newer vehicles.
- fyrn_ 3y ago
  I worry there isn't any value to the customer, and that this is really about taking back control of the software so they can sell subscriptions. We live in a world where seat heating was a subscription service in a luxury car after all.
op00to 3y ago
This is surprising because GM dumped a working solution for a non-working solution.
- shermantanktop 3y ago
  I'm very familiar with this dynamic from work. "We're deprecating v1.0, and looking forward to announcing the release of v2.0 any month now. All past defects will now be marked as 'will not fix', and all future defects will be nonexistent, because we're really smart. If you are lucky enough to find a bug in 2.0, prepare for some gaslighting from an engineer who tells you that YOU are the problem because you have failed to rewrite your entire app around the new, poorly documented API. Oh, docs are a fast follow." But it's one thing to try that move on the captive customer base that is one's fellow engineers; surprised to see it done quite so boldly on the general public.
gdevenyi 3y ago
> There’s just no surprise here at all. This will all be improved (but not fixed) a year from now. No it won't, it'll be abandoned and unsupported like all the other terrible car software.

LeafItAlone 3y ago

Apple CarPlay and Android Auto were such great ideas; they were almost too true from the beginning announcements. But between slow adoption, weird differences of implementation, and automakers realizing they are missing out on important (tracking/data aggregation) touch points, we are headed back to where we started.

bsder 3y ago
Interfacing your phone to your car was always going to be a disaster. Your car updates never and has the absolute cheapest hardware from 5 years ago that the manufacturer could possibly dig up from the trash. Your phone updates continuously and generally has close to top of the line semiconductor technology in it. Marrying these two is a disaster that anybody can predict.
- z2 3y ago
  My naive hope was just for the car to be a dumb second monitor, where the underlying standard just needs to have enough bandwidth and features like HDMI or Displayport, and then not need major changes for years and years despite the video out device evolving. Basic things like video out, audio out/in, night/day mode.
  - rgovostes 3y ago
    That is basically what CarPlay is, using proprietary streaming similar to AirPlay (which works wirelessly, not only over a cable). It’s slightly more sophisticated than a dumb audio/video/touch pipe: the phone can indicate different audio modes (music, navigation alert, etc.) and the car can send notifications (low on fuel, use dark mode), but these are optional.
  - thiht 3y ago
    That’s what CarPlay is. And probably Android Auto too I would guess?
- gmac 3y ago
  This just isn’t true, though. CarPlay has worked beautifully for me the last 5 years.

willio58 3y ago

Such a bummer. Sorry to say this will be my reason for not buying a GM EV. I know it sounds dumb, but I just love CarPlay.

istillwritecode 3y ago
it's odd that you say that without having seen the competitor. This is evidence of belonging to a cult or being afraid of better things. Of course it's possible that the new one is shit, but I think I'll make my own mind up.
- pfranz 3y ago
  It's odd you go straight to a trope about a cult. If I'm happy with something I don't always have the time, energy, or interest to seek out something better. It's completely unsurprising to expect the first generation of something like this, even if it was amazing, to have annoying flaws. Unfortunately, it doesn't sound amazing. Car companies have a long track record of disappointing infotainment systems and there's zero reason to expect anything better here. In fact, the problems in this article sound identical to the ones I had with Honda's most basic level infotainment system just a couple years ago. It would freeze and the only fix was turning off the car...a difficult solution on road trips. Asking the dealer about it, they said there was no update process for it--maybe a newer model year wouldn't have that issue?
  - shiroiuma 3y ago
    >It would freeze and the only fix was turning off the car...a difficult solution on road trips. Back in the days of manual transmissions, this wasn't so hard. I remember having to do this for some odd reason (don't remember) back in the 90s: just clutch in, turn off the ignition, restart the engine, clutch out. On my most recent car which had an infotainment system, there was some kind of three-button combination you could press to reboot the system without restarting the car.
    - pfranz 3y ago

ttt3ts 3y ago

9to5mac.com ... I will hold my judgment for a unbiased review.

superb_dev 3y ago

I wouldn’t bother with any car that doesn’t have CarPlay or Android Auto. Most car companies are just bad at building user interfaces, and my phone is already an excellent infotainment system. Why duplicate the work?

moogly 3y ago
I agree but for two issues with Android Auto/CarPlay that I hope they can fix, but might prove difficult since AA/CarPlay is, AFAIU, just a video feed: - for EVs, route planning since AA/CarPlay doesn't know anything about the SoC, and battery pre-conditioning since the car doesn't know anything about the navigation - likewise, no HUD integration with the navigation This only really matters for longer road trips though.
- jamincan 3y ago
  One thing I've noticed with Android Auto in my Taos is that the turn-by-turn directions are displayed on the main driver's display (I don't have a HUD) when I am navigating in Google Maps, suggesting that there is some protocol for sharing the directions. It would be nice, though, to have the actual map be shared (the built-in nav has some cool integrations), and for commands to be transmitted back to Android Auto from the car - for example with steering wheel controls, or when low on charge/gas looking for a charging/gas station.
- turquoisevar 3y ago
  EV route planning on CarPlay already exists, with the option to automatically plan charging stops and charging point usage information (e.g., x available spots etc.). Don’t know if it feeds anything back to help with preconditioning though. Sadly only a handful of manufacturers make use of this. Seems to be only Porsche Taycan and Ford Mustang Mach-E thus far(0) As for HUD integration, the next gen CarPlay concept showed that as a possibility, but the two concepts announced yesterday by Porsche and Aston Martin didn’t show that implementation[1]. 0: https://9to5mac.com/2023/08/19/ios-17-adds-real-time-charging-availability-info-for-ev-drivers/ https://9to5mac.com/2023/08/19/ios-17-adds-real-time-chargin... 1: https://9to5mac.com/2023/12/20/first-cars-with-next-generation-carplay-officially-announced/ https://9to5mac.com/2023/12/20/first-cars-with-next-generati...

NullPrefix 3y ago

Louis Rossmann did a video on this topic recently. His main point was that GM is removing CarPlay to get more money from customers by demanding a monthly fee for traffic data and other features that are already available on your CarPlay. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhh4rzImufs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhh4rzImufs

bonton89 3y ago
I assumed it was to track users and sell that data. Won't most people just endure the poorer experience of using their phone and ignore the half baked GM solution?
- NullPrefix 3y ago
  some will pay for the half baked GM solution

whynotmaybe 3y ago

Car are becoming reliable and from what I can get EV need less maintenance. How are they gonna recoup that lost money, if people don't need to go to the dealership every now and then to change oil? Subscription all the way! Want map/gps? Free version has ad, 7.99/month to remove ads. And you want traffic prediction? Go for the premium at 9.99$! Music? Comes with free Spotify. Buy the premium through the car, gm gets a cut. I'm not smart enough to think of all the possibilities but the way I look at it, I'll stay with my own phone connected on Bluetooth and a 10$ phone holder.