5 ms·

If I may ask what seems like an obvious question… why can’t they just use credit card terminals like gas stations have been using for many decades?

yurishimo 3y ago
They could, and many do, but the difference is that those types of interfaces are mandated/regulated while EV charging is not. Guess what's slightly cheaper when amortized across tens of thousands of customers in the products lifetime? Not to mention the amount of data that could be mined from those customers by having yet another app on their phone with bullshit location permissions "for the best user experience." Every gas pump has looked/functioned largely the same since the widespread adoption of cashless payments around the world. Until governments mandate a standard payment interface, I think it's more likely that companies will continue to find ways to mine data from consumers through shitty apps. Oh, and that's not even to mention the companies that include some amount of "free charging" credits with the purchase of the vehicle. Not only is that cost baked into the cost of the car, you're also disincentivized from using the network at all because of how crappy it is. /tinfoilhat
- spaceywilly 3y ago
  Yeah that just seems like a poor decision on the part of these charger owners. I feel like there’s an opportunity for a company called “EZCharge - we take credit cards”. People will seek it out when looking for a charging station because they know they won’t need to download a BS app. Or maybe another solution would be like WeChat Pay in China, something that’s so ubiquitous that all stores just have a QR code you scan to pay for anything nowadays. I’m surprised nothing like that has taken off in the US, it’s crazy convenient.
  - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
    There is no way to communicate when you are charged up that way, maybe via an SMS that you add with your phone number. Also, you have to communicate your charging preference somehow. It’s not like pumping gas, you rarely want it to stop at 100%, although the charging standard might at least be able to control that from the car.
    - spaceywilly 3y ago
      True I see what you mean, but that would seem to be an easy function to build into the car’s charging controller. I’m not sure how it works today but I would imagine most cars have a “stop charging at x%” function already without depending on the charger for that.
      - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
        Ya, I think they even get status otherwise I’m not sure how electrify America’s app works in the first place. I once charged at an L2 in Canada that involved a QR code, and then payment via a web form. In that case, a POS would make the setup too expensive compared to just putting power out there with a networked microcontroller.
    - ska 3y ago
      > There is no way to communicate when you are charged up that way Cant' the car do it?
      - staplers 3y ago
        Or ya know.. the pump, like has existed for decades..
        ska 3y ago
        I thought the problem was that it takes long enough that you aren't by the "pump" during process. Also that the chargepoints are likely less infrastructure than a pump. So something has to contact you (SMS/email/whatever)
        RulerOf 3y ago
        Yeah... cars come with internet connections these days, I'd say it's the car's job.
- Smoosh 3y ago
  > Not to mention the amount of data that could be mined from those customers That was my cynical take on it.
- flutas 3y ago
  IIRC the federal infrastructure bill required chargers to accept via CC reader or plug and charge. So I'm sure we will be seeing more chargers with it shortly.
  - btown 3y ago
    Yep: https://www.federalregister.gov/d/2023-03500/p-48 https://www.federalregister.gov/d/2023-03500/p-48 https://www.federalregister.gov/d/2023-03500/p-370 https://www.federalregister.gov/d/2023-03500/p-370 > This final rule establishes a requirement that charging stations must provide a contactless payment method that accepts major credit and debit cards and accept payment through either an automated toll-free phone number or a short message/messaging system (commonly abbreviated as SMS). Payment methods must be accessible to persons with disabilities, not require a membership, not affect the power flow to vehicles, and provide access for those that are limited English proficient.
- al_borland 3y ago
  So solving this problem would be as simple as mandating/regulating it? Sounds like a no-brainer to end this debate, standardize things, and allow the build out to happen in a quick and standard way across companies. With all the EV goals that various countries are making, this seems like a foundational part of it. Consumers aren't going to buy into EVs in mass until charging in a solved problem.
  - mensetmanusman 3y ago
    The epic solution is free charging financed by gasoline taxes.
    - xp84 3y ago
      That would be quite effective IF it were tenable, but this is a solution in search of a revolution, lol (speaking strictly for the US). I wish I were joking, but politically you would have an easier time abolishing Christmas than something like this. Pitchforks would be wielded by 2 groups: 1. numbskulls who hate EVs because they believe that being able to add 400 miles of range in their F150 in 5 minutes (ie gasoline) is the only okay way to do energy for every vehicle. 2. People with a good point that EVs are very expensive and why should poorer people subsidize the rich when the poors can’t even afford an EV.
      - Tostino 3y ago
        That second point is personally the sticking point for me. No reason the less-well-off should subsidize those who have the ability to purchase a new vehicle.
        mensetmanusman 3y ago
        Most of the tax revenue does not come from the poor though. They could still be given EVs regardless.
dkjaudyeqooe 3y ago
RV charging has much smaller installations than gas. Instead of gas stations, the most common SV charging will eventually be thick poles on the footpath so you can charge wherever you park, or small one or two bay charging facilities at various businesses. That's the sort of charging infrastructure you want and seamless payment solutions is an enabling tech.
- belltaco 3y ago
  What's RV and SV charging?
  - dkjaudyeqooe 3y ago
    S and R are on either side of E, so I'm guessing I meant EV.

yurishimo 3y ago

They could, and many do, but the difference is that those types of interfaces are mandated/regulated while EV charging is not. Guess what's slightly cheaper when amortized across tens of thousands of customers in the products lifetime? Not to mention the amount of data that could be mined from those customers by having yet another app on their phone with bullshit location permissions "for the best user experience." Every gas pump has looked/functioned largely the same since the widespread adoption of cashless payments around the world. Until governments mandate a standard payment interface, I think it's more likely that companies will continue to find ways to mine data from consumers through shitty apps. Oh, and that's not even to mention the companies that include some amount of "free charging" credits with the purchase of the vehicle. Not only is that cost baked into the cost of the car, you're also disincentivized from using the network at all because of how crappy it is. /tinfoilhat

spaceywilly 3y ago
Yeah that just seems like a poor decision on the part of these charger owners. I feel like there’s an opportunity for a company called “EZCharge - we take credit cards”. People will seek it out when looking for a charging station because they know they won’t need to download a BS app. Or maybe another solution would be like WeChat Pay in China, something that’s so ubiquitous that all stores just have a QR code you scan to pay for anything nowadays. I’m surprised nothing like that has taken off in the US, it’s crazy convenient.
- seanmcdirmid 3y ago
  There is no way to communicate when you are charged up that way, maybe via an SMS that you add with your phone number. Also, you have to communicate your charging preference somehow. It’s not like pumping gas, you rarely want it to stop at 100%, although the charging standard might at least be able to control that from the car.
  - spaceywilly 3y ago
    True I see what you mean, but that would seem to be an easy function to build into the car’s charging controller. I’m not sure how it works today but I would imagine most cars have a “stop charging at x%” function already without depending on the charger for that.
    - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
      Ya, I think they even get status otherwise I’m not sure how electrify America’s app works in the first place. I once charged at an L2 in Canada that involved a QR code, and then payment via a web form. In that case, a POS would make the setup too expensive compared to just putting power out there with a networked microcontroller.
  - ska 3y ago
    > There is no way to communicate when you are charged up that way Cant' the car do it?
    - staplers 3y ago
      Or ya know.. the pump, like has existed for decades..
      - ska 3y ago
        I thought the problem was that it takes long enough that you aren't by the "pump" during process. Also that the chargepoints are likely less infrastructure than a pump. So something has to contact you (SMS/email/whatever)
        RulerOf 3y ago
        Yeah... cars come with internet connections these days, I'd say it's the car's job.
Smoosh 3y ago
> Not to mention the amount of data that could be mined from those customers That was my cynical take on it.
flutas 3y ago
IIRC the federal infrastructure bill required chargers to accept via CC reader or plug and charge. So I'm sure we will be seeing more chargers with it shortly.
- btown 3y ago
  Yep: https://www.federalregister.gov/d/2023-03500/p-48 https://www.federalregister.gov/d/2023-03500/p-48 https://www.federalregister.gov/d/2023-03500/p-370 https://www.federalregister.gov/d/2023-03500/p-370 > This final rule establishes a requirement that charging stations must provide a contactless payment method that accepts major credit and debit cards and accept payment through either an automated toll-free phone number or a short message/messaging system (commonly abbreviated as SMS). Payment methods must be accessible to persons with disabilities, not require a membership, not affect the power flow to vehicles, and provide access for those that are limited English proficient.
al_borland 3y ago
So solving this problem would be as simple as mandating/regulating it? Sounds like a no-brainer to end this debate, standardize things, and allow the build out to happen in a quick and standard way across companies. With all the EV goals that various countries are making, this seems like a foundational part of it. Consumers aren't going to buy into EVs in mass until charging in a solved problem.
- mensetmanusman 3y ago
  The epic solution is free charging financed by gasoline taxes.
  - xp84 3y ago
    That would be quite effective IF it were tenable, but this is a solution in search of a revolution, lol (speaking strictly for the US). I wish I were joking, but politically you would have an easier time abolishing Christmas than something like this. Pitchforks would be wielded by 2 groups: 1. numbskulls who hate EVs because they believe that being able to add 400 miles of range in their F150 in 5 minutes (ie gasoline) is the only okay way to do energy for every vehicle. 2. People with a good point that EVs are very expensive and why should poorer people subsidize the rich when the poors can’t even afford an EV.
    - Tostino 3y ago
      That second point is personally the sticking point for me. No reason the less-well-off should subsidize those who have the ability to purchase a new vehicle.
      - mensetmanusman 3y ago
        Most of the tax revenue does not come from the poor though. They could still be given EVs regardless.

dkjaudyeqooe 3y ago

RV charging has much smaller installations than gas. Instead of gas stations, the most common SV charging will eventually be thick poles on the footpath so you can charge wherever you park, or small one or two bay charging facilities at various businesses. That's the sort of charging infrastructure you want and seamless payment solutions is an enabling tech.

belltaco 3y ago
What's RV and SV charging?
- dkjaudyeqooe 3y ago
  S and R are on either side of E, so I'm guessing I meant EV.