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I would expect that in the near future EVs become commodities based on a small handful of licensed platforms. Owning the charging network is a nice hedge agains

I would expect that in the near future EVs become commodities based on a small handful of licensed platforms. Owning the charging network is a nice hedge against losing the battle to become one of the platforms.

mupuff1234 3y ago
Maybe, but a charging network is not quite a trillion dollar business, not to mention that the charging network will also become a commodity (especially since the charging protocol is open)
bluGill 3y ago
I disagree. People like their car to look new/different, and volumes on cars are high enough that the advantages of a custom platform is worth the cost of designing it.
- adrianN 3y ago
  The design of the car is only loosely related to the skateboard that contains the battery and the drivetrain.
  - tomatotomato37 3y ago
    Considering 90% of modern consumer automobiles use a monocoque frame the design means everything to the chassis
    - adrianN 3y ago
      All cars made by the Volkswagen group are based on like 20 platforms. For example the Audi A3 and the Skoda Yeti are the same platform. They look quite different.
  - bluGill 3y ago
    Skateboard makes even less sense for EVs than for ICEs. in an ICE you have a large engine and various axels that have to be in specific places. With an EV you have more room to move the motors around where they makes sense. While you need a lot of batteries, each cell is small, so you want to put things like seats in the car first and then add cells anywhere there is extra room.
    - sbininit 3y ago
      Yeah some cars (like the polestar) have really shallow rear-seat legroom, which was a total showstopper. They could have move some of those batteries to the trunk/frunk
      - yurishimo 3y ago
        They could, but there is also a cost to separating the batteries. More cables, which means more resistance, which means inefficiency. Not to mention the extra design and manufacturing costs. In practice, I don't think any company is meaningfully splitting up their battery pack to take advantage of "better" packaging logistics elsewhere in the frame/body. I know in this example, they could still likely be loosely attached in the same plane, but with less density under the cabin, but I think my point holds.
- Skunkleton 3y ago
  > People like their car to look new/different That's true in my experience. Though it is interesting that cars look more and more similar over time rather than different.
  - ghaff 3y ago
    There are probably two main answers to that. - People generally like their vehicles to look different but not too different. Design of everything is a fashion industry. - Fuel efficiency, practicality, and safety requirements all lead to a certain level of convergence.
0xffff2 3y ago
Why would this be true for EVs when it's clearly not true for ICE vehicles?
phkahler 3y ago
>> Owning the charging network is a nice hedge against losing the battle to become one of the platforms. Charging networks are IMHO not a viable long term business model. Building out a "platform" to sell commodity electrons is utterly stupid. Nobody wants the stupid app, they want to charge at McDonalds along the highway while they grab something to eat.
- tw04 3y ago
  >Charging networks are IMHO not a viable long term business model. Sort of like gas stations weren't a viable long-term business model? > Nobody wants the stupid app, they want to charge at McDonalds along the highway while they grab something to eat. So you should put your chargers near convenient amenities... like a convenience store... like a gas station?
  - ffgjgf1 3y ago
    > Sort of like gas stations weren't a viable long-term business model? If you only sell gas and nothing else you can only compete on price. Good luck with that.
  - wil421 3y ago
    Tesla isn’t building C-Stores that sell Gas or Electrons. The superchargers I’ve seen are in some random parking lot without a restroom or convenience store selling stuff.
    - bluGill 3y ago
      Some of them, but I've also seen Tesla at various truck stops. In rural areas building at a convenience store make sense: they already have restrooms, some form of restaurant and various other things to buy on site - everything a traveler needs for a quick break to fill the car before getting back on the road. In cities I think we will see less chargers as most people just go home to charge. However in poor areas they will be at places like grocery stores so you those who don't have at-home charging can charge and shop.
  - 3y ago

mupuff1234 3y ago

Maybe, but a charging network is not quite a trillion dollar business, not to mention that the charging network will also become a commodity (especially since the charging protocol is open)

bluGill 3y ago

I disagree. People like their car to look new/different, and volumes on cars are high enough that the advantages of a custom platform is worth the cost of designing it.

adrianN 3y ago
The design of the car is only loosely related to the skateboard that contains the battery and the drivetrain.
- tomatotomato37 3y ago
  Considering 90% of modern consumer automobiles use a monocoque frame the design means everything to the chassis
  - adrianN 3y ago
    All cars made by the Volkswagen group are based on like 20 platforms. For example the Audi A3 and the Skoda Yeti are the same platform. They look quite different.
- bluGill 3y ago
  Skateboard makes even less sense for EVs than for ICEs. in an ICE you have a large engine and various axels that have to be in specific places. With an EV you have more room to move the motors around where they makes sense. While you need a lot of batteries, each cell is small, so you want to put things like seats in the car first and then add cells anywhere there is extra room.
  - sbininit 3y ago
    Yeah some cars (like the polestar) have really shallow rear-seat legroom, which was a total showstopper. They could have move some of those batteries to the trunk/frunk
    - yurishimo 3y ago
      They could, but there is also a cost to separating the batteries. More cables, which means more resistance, which means inefficiency. Not to mention the extra design and manufacturing costs. In practice, I don't think any company is meaningfully splitting up their battery pack to take advantage of "better" packaging logistics elsewhere in the frame/body. I know in this example, they could still likely be loosely attached in the same plane, but with less density under the cabin, but I think my point holds.
Skunkleton 3y ago
> People like their car to look new/different That's true in my experience. Though it is interesting that cars look more and more similar over time rather than different.
- ghaff 3y ago
  There are probably two main answers to that. - People generally like their vehicles to look different but not too different. Design of everything is a fashion industry. - Fuel efficiency, practicality, and safety requirements all lead to a certain level of convergence.

0xffff2 3y ago

Why would this be true for EVs when it's clearly not true for ICE vehicles?

phkahler 3y ago

>> Owning the charging network is a nice hedge against losing the battle to become one of the platforms. Charging networks are IMHO not a viable long term business model. Building out a "platform" to sell commodity electrons is utterly stupid. Nobody wants the stupid app, they want to charge at McDonalds along the highway while they grab something to eat.

tw04 3y ago
>Charging networks are IMHO not a viable long term business model. Sort of like gas stations weren't a viable long-term business model? > Nobody wants the stupid app, they want to charge at McDonalds along the highway while they grab something to eat. So you should put your chargers near convenient amenities... like a convenience store... like a gas station?
- ffgjgf1 3y ago
  > Sort of like gas stations weren't a viable long-term business model? If you only sell gas and nothing else you can only compete on price. Good luck with that.
- wil421 3y ago
  Tesla isn’t building C-Stores that sell Gas or Electrons. The superchargers I’ve seen are in some random parking lot without a restroom or convenience store selling stuff.
  - bluGill 3y ago
    Some of them, but I've also seen Tesla at various truck stops. In rural areas building at a convenience store make sense: they already have restrooms, some form of restaurant and various other things to buy on site - everything a traveler needs for a quick break to fill the car before getting back on the road. In cities I think we will see less chargers as most people just go home to charge. However in poor areas they will be at places like grocery stores so you those who don't have at-home charging can charge and shop.
- 3y ago