6 ms·

Nio ET7 with 150 kWh semi-solid state battery achieves a 1,044 km range

77 points by clouddrover 3y ago

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
Kirby64 3y ago
Obviously this is a Chinese car, but their 1044km claim is using the CLTC range tests, which are wildly optimistic. I’d expect this to be closer to 500-550mi of EPA range (vs 635 here). Still impressive, but not exactly shocking for a sedan with a 150kWh battery to be capable of this range. I think the more impressive thing is cramming 150kWh of battery into a 4 door sedan.
- idontwantthis 3y ago
  The massive battery is the point. It’s a much more dense chemistry. It’s not a more efficient car.
  - Robotbeat 3y ago
    Efficiency (percent for percent) can buy you all the advantages of higher energy density, but with higher charge speed (ie miles per charge minute, for a given wattage), lower charge cost, cheaper battery (fewer kWhs), etc. So really, you wouldn’t want to sacrifice much efficiency to get greater energy density. You really want BOTH. A Lucid Air with this kind of battery would have greater range than a lot of gas cars; a fantastic road trip car. In fact, you could go basically a full day’s driving (11-12hours) without charging, then charge overnight with a beefy L2 charger (typically a lot cheaper than fast charging) and never have to actually stop during the day for charging.
- thorncorona 3y ago
  The article says they travelled 1044km on a livestream, with 3% battery left, not CLTC?
- KRAKRISMOTT 3y ago
  Just get a lucid, same thing.
  - clouddrover 3y ago
    Except Nios can both charge and swap. You can have a 75 kWh battery most of the time, swap to a 150 kWh for a road trip, and then swap back to a 75 kWh for your daily driving. It means you don't own the battery, but it also means you can change to a new battery whenever you want.
    - KRAKRISMOTT 3y ago
      If they fully insure or warranty the battery against all damages then it's a great deal. Battery depreciates a lot faster than the car, even if you don't use it.
      - andruby 3y ago
        Do you have any data to support the statement that batteries depreciate a lot faster than the car? Tesla guarantees the battery for 8 years or 192,000km. If the battery degraded to below 80% of spec, they replace it for free. Meaning that probably 95% or more of their batteries still have a higher capacity at that point. Modern EV batteries are really good. A car that's 8 years old or has 192,000km will probably have lost about 70% of its resale value.
        Robotbeat 3y ago
        I have a 2013 Tesla Model S I bought used. It now has about 150,000 miles on it, probably about 85% of the battery capacity, and still gets regular over the air updates. I go on road trips a few times a year (with my family of 5), last time was about 2/3rds across the continental US and back. It’s got wear and tear like a 10 year old car, but the battery is fine.
        bradfa 3y ago
- borg_ 3y ago
  Obviously you didn't read (the first sentence of) the article, I applaud your courage in commenting regardless. The 1044km claim is from a livestream where the CEO of the company drove the car from Shanghai to Xiamen until there's 3% left in the battery. All this amid a cold wave too. > The temperature during the test was between -2 °C and 12 °C (28 – 54 °F). The coldest time was at the beginning of the test, as it was early morning in Shanghai. The average cabin temperature was 20 °C (68 °F). The carload was about 190 kg (two adults, lifestream equipment, and other items).
  - wkat4242 3y ago
    Yeah CEOs are well known for their unbiased claims about their own companies, much more so than standards bodies (however flawed)
    - adrianN 3y ago
      How can you bias a livestream where you drive the number of kilometers that you later claim that you can drive with the car? You can at worst commit outright fraud, but bias?
      - ViewTrick1002 3y ago
        Hypermiling is a known method for extending the range. That is why standardized tests are important so you can match the standardized number to your driving. A livestream is hard to fake but what tires were they using? What was the climate control setting? What speed? Did they have a tail wind? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypermiling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypermiling
        adrianN 3y ago
        They give you most of that information in the article.
        tooltalk 3y ago
        The maximum speed was caped to 90 km/hour (56 miles/hour), and the energy consumption was 13.2 kWh/100 km. The average speed for the trip was 83.9 km/h. so there it goes, driven at an average speed of 53 mph hypermilling! For comparison, Tesla M3 achieved 975km: In May 2018, Sean Mitchell and Erik Strait set a hypermiling record for the Tesla Model 3 by driving 606.2 miles on a single charge after 32 hours of driving.
walrus01 3y ago
90km/h speed and air resistance is a big difference than something like real world USA freeway cruise control speeds, now repeat the same test at 120km/h and show the results. Still impressive in likely being above 800 km range at the much higher air resistance speed, if I had to make a wild guess. 360Wh/kg for batteries is very noteworthy since some of the very best 18650 or 21700 format, higher amperage capable, li ion cylindrical cells used in UAV applications are right around 255Wh/kg.
- constantly 3y ago
  Looks like this article from Car News China is testing a Chinese car in China with Chinese batteries on Chinese roads. I didn’t see any reference to USA or USA freeways.
rapsey 3y ago
> In China, you can buy a Nio car without a battery. You subscribe to BaaS (Battery as a Service) and pay a monthly subscription fee. The battery stays on Nio’s balance sheet. In this case, you can upgrade the battery on demand. If you subscribe to a 75 kWh battery, you can upgrade to a 100 kWh battery for 50 yuan (7 USD) a day or 880 yuan (123 USD) a month. This would make 150 kWh an excellent option for a short upgrade when going on a long trip rather than being “a daily driver.” That is a very interesting model.
- Scoundreller 3y ago
  France had Renaults where you'd buy the car but lease the battery. No hot-swapping though. Seems like all the disadvantages of ownership with all the disadvantages of leasing. https://www.renaultgroup.com/en/news-on-air/news/all-you-need-to-know-about-battery-leasing-for-the-renault-zoe/ https://www.renaultgroup.com/en/news-on-air/news/all-you-nee...
  - clouddrover 3y ago
    Nio's swapping works better. You can complete a swap in 6 minutes. And you can upgrade and downgrade the battery between the 75, 100, and the eventual 150 kWh options to suit what you need: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmWL1hZQmD0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmWL1hZQmD0
    - mycall 3y ago
      If only hot swap batteries existed for buses as it would solve a huge problem with range and charging fleets at yards.
  - rsynnott 3y ago
    I _think_ the theory there was that it spread the cost; you’d buy the car for similar to a petrol car, and then pay X euro a month where X was probably similar to what you’d have otherwise been spending on petrol. Don’t think it was ever a particularly popular option.
  - 3y ago
qnleigh 3y ago
How does the energy density compare with a standard Li battery? How long does it take to charge?
pjc50 3y ago
Pricing seems unclear as it always is for premium cars, but about £60-£70,000.
postingawayonhn 3y ago
Interesting that the cells are only 360 Wh/kg. CATL announced 500 Wh/kg cells earlier in the year. https://www.catl.com/en/news/6015.html https://www.catl.com/en/news/6015.html
acomjean 3y ago
Could anyone read this? I got page covering pop ups and couldn’t navigate away. It was “scanning my device for viruses”. Sigh
- swarnie 3y ago
  No popups, ads or related items for me. Looks like the most vanilla 2008 blog site possible
1023bytes 3y ago
Would be amazing if you could get this swapped in and out for a longer roadtrip
- sigio 3y ago
  That's the entire idea... normal charging for day-to-day ... swap battery for roadtrips. The swapstations are ~200km's apart on the motorway corridors.
- thebruce87m 3y ago
  Depends on how quick the swap takes. If a normal charge would take 20 minutes and you’re doing a bathroom/food break anyway then it’s basically no extra time. If you need to stand next to a battery swap for a few minutes and move when it’s done then it’s extra. EVs are weird. Certain usage patterns mean less time waiting than ICE vehicles.

77 points by clouddrover 3y ago

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

Obviously this is a Chinese car, but their 1044km claim is using the CLTC range tests, which are wildly optimistic. I’d expect this to be closer to 500-550mi of EPA range (vs 635 here). Still impressive, but not exactly shocking for a sedan with a 150kWh battery to be capable of this range. I think the more impressive thing is cramming 150kWh of battery into a 4 door sedan.

idontwantthis 3y ago
The massive battery is the point. It’s a much more dense chemistry. It’s not a more efficient car.
- Robotbeat 3y ago
  Efficiency (percent for percent) can buy you all the advantages of higher energy density, but with higher charge speed (ie miles per charge minute, for a given wattage), lower charge cost, cheaper battery (fewer kWhs), etc. So really, you wouldn’t want to sacrifice much efficiency to get greater energy density. You really want BOTH. A Lucid Air with this kind of battery would have greater range than a lot of gas cars; a fantastic road trip car. In fact, you could go basically a full day’s driving (11-12hours) without charging, then charge overnight with a beefy L2 charger (typically a lot cheaper than fast charging) and never have to actually stop during the day for charging.
thorncorona 3y ago
The article says they travelled 1044km on a livestream, with 3% battery left, not CLTC?
KRAKRISMOTT 3y ago
Just get a lucid, same thing.
- clouddrover 3y ago
  Except Nios can both charge and swap. You can have a 75 kWh battery most of the time, swap to a 150 kWh for a road trip, and then swap back to a 75 kWh for your daily driving. It means you don't own the battery, but it also means you can change to a new battery whenever you want.
  - KRAKRISMOTT 3y ago
    If they fully insure or warranty the battery against all damages then it's a great deal. Battery depreciates a lot faster than the car, even if you don't use it.
    - andruby 3y ago
      Do you have any data to support the statement that batteries depreciate a lot faster than the car? Tesla guarantees the battery for 8 years or 192,000km. If the battery degraded to below 80% of spec, they replace it for free. Meaning that probably 95% or more of their batteries still have a higher capacity at that point. Modern EV batteries are really good. A car that's 8 years old or has 192,000km will probably have lost about 70% of its resale value.
      - Robotbeat 3y ago
        I have a 2013 Tesla Model S I bought used. It now has about 150,000 miles on it, probably about 85% of the battery capacity, and still gets regular over the air updates. I go on road trips a few times a year (with my family of 5), last time was about 2/3rds across the continental US and back. It’s got wear and tear like a 10 year old car, but the battery is fine.
        bradfa 3y ago
borg_ 3y ago
Obviously you didn't read (the first sentence of) the article, I applaud your courage in commenting regardless. The 1044km claim is from a livestream where the CEO of the company drove the car from Shanghai to Xiamen until there's 3% left in the battery. All this amid a cold wave too. > The temperature during the test was between -2 °C and 12 °C (28 – 54 °F). The coldest time was at the beginning of the test, as it was early morning in Shanghai. The average cabin temperature was 20 °C (68 °F). The carload was about 190 kg (two adults, lifestream equipment, and other items).
- wkat4242 3y ago
  Yeah CEOs are well known for their unbiased claims about their own companies, much more so than standards bodies (however flawed)
  - adrianN 3y ago
    How can you bias a livestream where you drive the number of kilometers that you later claim that you can drive with the car? You can at worst commit outright fraud, but bias?
    - ViewTrick1002 3y ago
      Hypermiling is a known method for extending the range. That is why standardized tests are important so you can match the standardized number to your driving. A livestream is hard to fake but what tires were they using? What was the climate control setting? What speed? Did they have a tail wind? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypermiling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypermiling
      - adrianN 3y ago
        They give you most of that information in the article.
      - tooltalk 3y ago
        The maximum speed was caped to 90 km/hour (56 miles/hour), and the energy consumption was 13.2 kWh/100 km. The average speed for the trip was 83.9 km/h. so there it goes, driven at an average speed of 53 mph hypermilling! For comparison, Tesla M3 achieved 975km: In May 2018, Sean Mitchell and Erik Strait set a hypermiling record for the Tesla Model 3 by driving 606.2 miles on a single charge after 32 hours of driving.

walrus01 3y ago

90km/h speed and air resistance is a big difference than something like real world USA freeway cruise control speeds, now repeat the same test at 120km/h and show the results. Still impressive in likely being above 800 km range at the much higher air resistance speed, if I had to make a wild guess. 360Wh/kg for batteries is very noteworthy since some of the very best 18650 or 21700 format, higher amperage capable, li ion cylindrical cells used in UAV applications are right around 255Wh/kg.

constantly 3y ago
Looks like this article from Car News China is testing a Chinese car in China with Chinese batteries on Chinese roads. I didn’t see any reference to USA or USA freeways.

rapsey 3y ago

> In China, you can buy a Nio car without a battery. You subscribe to BaaS (Battery as a Service) and pay a monthly subscription fee. The battery stays on Nio’s balance sheet. In this case, you can upgrade the battery on demand. If you subscribe to a 75 kWh battery, you can upgrade to a 100 kWh battery for 50 yuan (7 USD) a day or 880 yuan (123 USD) a month. This would make 150 kWh an excellent option for a short upgrade when going on a long trip rather than being “a daily driver.” That is a very interesting model.

Scoundreller 3y ago
France had Renaults where you'd buy the car but lease the battery. No hot-swapping though. Seems like all the disadvantages of ownership with all the disadvantages of leasing. https://www.renaultgroup.com/en/news-on-air/news/all-you-need-to-know-about-battery-leasing-for-the-renault-zoe/ https://www.renaultgroup.com/en/news-on-air/news/all-you-nee...
- clouddrover 3y ago
  Nio's swapping works better. You can complete a swap in 6 minutes. And you can upgrade and downgrade the battery between the 75, 100, and the eventual 150 kWh options to suit what you need: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmWL1hZQmD0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmWL1hZQmD0
  - mycall 3y ago
    If only hot swap batteries existed for buses as it would solve a huge problem with range and charging fleets at yards.
- rsynnott 3y ago
  I _think_ the theory there was that it spread the cost; you’d buy the car for similar to a petrol car, and then pay X euro a month where X was probably similar to what you’d have otherwise been spending on petrol. Don’t think it was ever a particularly popular option.
- 3y ago

qnleigh 3y ago

How does the energy density compare with a standard Li battery? How long does it take to charge?

pjc50 3y ago

Pricing seems unclear as it always is for premium cars, but about £60-£70,000.

postingawayonhn 3y ago

Interesting that the cells are only 360 Wh/kg. CATL announced 500 Wh/kg cells earlier in the year. https://www.catl.com/en/news/6015.html https://www.catl.com/en/news/6015.html

acomjean 3y ago

Could anyone read this? I got page covering pop ups and couldn’t navigate away. It was “scanning my device for viruses”. Sigh

swarnie 3y ago
No popups, ads or related items for me. Looks like the most vanilla 2008 blog site possible

1023bytes 3y ago

Would be amazing if you could get this swapped in and out for a longer roadtrip

sigio 3y ago
That's the entire idea... normal charging for day-to-day ... swap battery for roadtrips. The swapstations are ~200km's apart on the motorway corridors.
thebruce87m 3y ago
Depends on how quick the swap takes. If a normal charge would take 20 minutes and you’re doing a bathroom/food break anyway then it’s basically no extra time. If you need to stand next to a battery swap for a few minutes and move when it’s done then it’s extra. EVs are weird. Certain usage patterns mean less time waiting than ICE vehicles.