5 ms·

"About 2% of the total went to alcohol, cigarettes and drug expenses — the largest portion of which was cigarettes" I'm pretty sure that the average American s

"About 2% of the total went to alcohol, cigarettes and drug expenses — the largest portion of which was cigarettes" I'm pretty sure that the average American spends more than 2% of their income on drugs.

SV_BubbleTime 3y ago
That spending was self-reported. Do you think the average American would self-report more?
- meowtimemania 3y ago
  Also need to factor in that since the $750 is a recurring gift that could stop at any time, recipients are incentivized to report that the $750 is spent in good ways.
- HenryBemis 3y ago
  It is relative easy/simple to calculate this with 'some' accuracy. If you ask someone how much they smoke per day, (that's pretty consistent) and they respond "2 packs of X brand", then you know the brand, you know the price x365 you can estimate the cost. If you point blank ask me "how much do you spend on pizzas every year", I can't just pull a number out of a hat. I will do the math: €20 per pizza x 1 per month = approx 240.
  - SV_BubbleTime 3y ago
    Are you underestimating how much people lie, even to themselves? Esp here. “Hey; want to be part of a study where we give you free money to see if it helps you out?”… “Ok, now how much of that money did you use on things that were harmful to you?” You could perform that study with anyone and you’re going to get BS answers and estimations.
yieldcrv 3y ago
I think its insightful that there are thresholds if you have $50 and it wont make a difference in getting what you actually need, then fast food and fast thrills are what it will be spent on if you have $750 or some other threshold, you can try to make a difference to get out of it its like “give a man a fish” versus “sign up for fishing classes, get books, equipment and train so you’ll never have to be in the situation ever again”
SeanAnderson 3y ago
Google says avg American makes ~$60k/yr and spends ~$600/yr on drinking. 2% of 60k is 1200. So they'd need to be spending as much on weed/cigs/hard drugs as they do on alcohol. I think it's close, but unlikely?
- Georgelemental 3y ago
  Median vs. mean likely makes a very large difference here.
  - SeanAnderson 3y ago
    I don't disagree, but my response was directed to someone who was commenting on the average American. Didn't seem reasonable to interpret them differently just to build a more convincing answer.
    - playingalong 3y ago
      "The average American" could easily be interpreted as the median.
      - SeanAnderson 3y ago
        fair enough
    - pseudalopex 3y ago
      Average person means median usually. Average expense could be either. HN guidelines say respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says.[1] [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- bidandanswer 3y ago
  The average is a really misleading statistic here, because alcohol and drug use seem to follow a power law distribution. The top X% of drinkers drink orders of magnitude more than the average. They skew the average much, much higher than what people think of as how much the "average person" drinks. According to this news article [1], the "average person" drinks (73.85 + 15.28 + 6.25 + 2.17 + 0.63 + 0.14 + 0.02) / 10 = 9.834 drinks per week! But the fifth decile (the middle of the distribution) drinks only 0.14 drinks per week --- less than one per month! I appreciate your analysis but I think the average is too lossy of a statistic to make a good argument here. 1. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/09/25/think-you-drink-a-lot-this-chart-will-tell-you/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/09/25/think...
hotpotamus 3y ago
I wonder - I only get a couple generics that literally cost less than $1 to get from my local pharmacy for some reason, but I wonder how much I'm paying in healthcare premiums (particularly employer premiums) that go towards drugs - it's probably much greater than 2% of my income indeed. Wegovy is like $1500/month and selling like gangbusters as an example. For the recreational stuff, I'd rather make/grow my own, so in one sense they're free, but in the actual sense, they're probably quite expensive once you factor in the equipment; just like any other hobby I suppose. Hell, keeping hives to get honey to make into mead is quite the long way around.
brvsft 3y ago
> Homeless man we gave $750 to, how much did you spend on illicit drugs? > > Oh uhhh... like $15. > Okay, thanks. I am writing that down in my report. Now it is a fact.
- nerdponx 3y ago
  If you gave anyone $750 they'd have similar incentive to lie. However it might be interesting as a control is to give some random non-homeless people $750 to see how they spend their money.
tracedddd 3y ago
I have a hard time believing that’s a legitimate statistic. Even being a normal daily smoker would equate to a lot more than 2%.
- TheCoelacanth 3y ago
  That's averaged in with a lot of people who don't smoke at all.
__blockcipher__ 3y ago
I bet that average homeless person does too. 2% seems ridiculously low. $15 a month total on drugs? That only makes sense for someone who does no opioids, no stimulants, and just smokes 1 pack of cigs and has a single beer across an entire month.
- throw310822 3y ago
  Basically, a monk. "Hey we gave $750/ month to these homeless guys- yes the ones dressed in those brown rags and with that strange haircut- they were so thankful."
- pseudalopex 3y ago
  The median American consumes no illegal drugs, no tobacco, and approximately 2 alcoholic drinks monthly.

SV_BubbleTime 3y ago

That spending was self-reported. Do you think the average American would self-report more?

meowtimemania 3y ago
Also need to factor in that since the $750 is a recurring gift that could stop at any time, recipients are incentivized to report that the $750 is spent in good ways.
HenryBemis 3y ago
It is relative easy/simple to calculate this with 'some' accuracy. If you ask someone how much they smoke per day, (that's pretty consistent) and they respond "2 packs of X brand", then you know the brand, you know the price x365 you can estimate the cost. If you point blank ask me "how much do you spend on pizzas every year", I can't just pull a number out of a hat. I will do the math: €20 per pizza x 1 per month = approx 240.
- SV_BubbleTime 3y ago
  Are you underestimating how much people lie, even to themselves? Esp here. “Hey; want to be part of a study where we give you free money to see if it helps you out?”… “Ok, now how much of that money did you use on things that were harmful to you?” You could perform that study with anyone and you’re going to get BS answers and estimations.

yieldcrv 3y ago

I think its insightful that there are thresholds if you have $50 and it wont make a difference in getting what you actually need, then fast food and fast thrills are what it will be spent on if you have $750 or some other threshold, you can try to make a difference to get out of it its like “give a man a fish” versus “sign up for fishing classes, get books, equipment and train so you’ll never have to be in the situation ever again”

SeanAnderson 3y ago

Google says avg American makes ~$60k/yr and spends ~$600/yr on drinking. 2% of 60k is 1200. So they'd need to be spending as much on weed/cigs/hard drugs as they do on alcohol. I think it's close, but unlikely?

Georgelemental 3y ago
Median vs. mean likely makes a very large difference here.
- SeanAnderson 3y ago
  I don't disagree, but my response was directed to someone who was commenting on the average American. Didn't seem reasonable to interpret them differently just to build a more convincing answer.
  - playingalong 3y ago
    "The average American" could easily be interpreted as the median.
    - SeanAnderson 3y ago
      fair enough
  - pseudalopex 3y ago
    Average person means median usually. Average expense could be either. HN guidelines say respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says.[1] [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
bidandanswer 3y ago
The average is a really misleading statistic here, because alcohol and drug use seem to follow a power law distribution. The top X% of drinkers drink orders of magnitude more than the average. They skew the average much, much higher than what people think of as how much the "average person" drinks. According to this news article [1], the "average person" drinks (73.85 + 15.28 + 6.25 + 2.17 + 0.63 + 0.14 + 0.02) / 10 = 9.834 drinks per week! But the fifth decile (the middle of the distribution) drinks only 0.14 drinks per week --- less than one per month! I appreciate your analysis but I think the average is too lossy of a statistic to make a good argument here. 1. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/09/25/think-you-drink-a-lot-this-chart-will-tell-you/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/09/25/think...

hotpotamus 3y ago

I wonder - I only get a couple generics that literally cost less than $1 to get from my local pharmacy for some reason, but I wonder how much I'm paying in healthcare premiums (particularly employer premiums) that go towards drugs - it's probably much greater than 2% of my income indeed. Wegovy is like $1500/month and selling like gangbusters as an example. For the recreational stuff, I'd rather make/grow my own, so in one sense they're free, but in the actual sense, they're probably quite expensive once you factor in the equipment; just like any other hobby I suppose. Hell, keeping hives to get honey to make into mead is quite the long way around.

brvsft 3y ago

> Homeless man we gave $750 to, how much did you spend on illicit drugs? > > Oh uhhh... like $15. > Okay, thanks. I am writing that down in my report. Now it is a fact.

nerdponx 3y ago
If you gave anyone $750 they'd have similar incentive to lie. However it might be interesting as a control is to give some random non-homeless people $750 to see how they spend their money.

tracedddd 3y ago

I have a hard time believing that’s a legitimate statistic. Even being a normal daily smoker would equate to a lot more than 2%.

TheCoelacanth 3y ago
That's averaged in with a lot of people who don't smoke at all.

__blockcipher__ 3y ago

I bet that average homeless person does too. 2% seems ridiculously low. $15 a month total on drugs? That only makes sense for someone who does no opioids, no stimulants, and just smokes 1 pack of cigs and has a single beer across an entire month.

throw310822 3y ago
Basically, a monk. "Hey we gave $750/ month to these homeless guys- yes the ones dressed in those brown rags and with that strange haircut- they were so thankful."
pseudalopex 3y ago
The median American consumes no illegal drugs, no tobacco, and approximately 2 alcoholic drinks monthly.