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Mercedes adds a new car light color: Blue for self-driving
- bell-cot 3y agoTurquoise, not blue, as the article quickly makes clear. (The exact shade is spec'ed by the Society of Automotive Engineers, presumably to minimize the chance of normally-sighted drivers mistaking it for the actual blue color used on many police vehicles.)
- heartag 3y agoThey can make that claim, but I happen to be gifted with eyesight, which allows me to know that even blue-tinted headlights are easy to mistake as police lights under a pretty wide variety of circumstances.
- scythe 3y agoAs long as we're casting aspersions, those little blue Uber dashboard lights have given me a few palpitations at this point.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- heartag 3y agoHey, now the at-fault vehicle will match the first responder's!
- happytiger 3y agoThis seems perilously close to the green color of traffic lights. Is there any reason to use anything close to the existing spectrum of green (drive quickly into this light) or blue (emergency) for this? Why not purple? Do bear in mind they selected turquoise which is just equal parts blue and green light. Like, why would you do that if you had any other choice? Color perception is a tricky thing as anyone who has ever painted a house knows. The ambient can deeply affect it, and people have different perceptions of color in their eyes to say nothing of those with Tritanomaly who simply won’t be able to discern these colors at all. And then there’s lots of traffic lights already have kind of a turquoise color. Just look for yourself: http://www.google.com/search?q=green+traffic+light&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch http://www.google.com/search?q=green+traffic+light&prmd=imvn... Is that really the best choice? Really? Seems kinda short sighted, so to speak.
- barryrandall 3y agoThey also look like the low-quality aftermarket headlights that are ubiquitous on US roads.
- happytiger 3y agoLight purple is the preferred color of a good nighttime LED headlight blinding. I winced at this comment because I felt what it felt like when I read it. The trauma is real.
- airstrike 3y agoAgreed. Many green traffic lights do look quite turquoisy. A Deep Purple might have been better and cooler
- qmarchi 3y agoIf you want "green" traffic lights, check out Japan's. Due to historical reasons, and to comply with international standards, they changed the meaning of the color to match the existing street lights.
- jona-f 3y agoI don't think that is quite right. Afaik, historically, in japan, green is a shade of blue. And they didn't comply with international standards, they aren't part of the Vienna Convention on Road Signs and Signals.
- arjie 3y agoThis is how traffic lights looked when I was there https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37988388 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37988388 Photos on a Canon consumer-level DSLR and on a Pixel 3 phone https://imgur.com/a/S815y7o https://imgur.com/a/S815y7o
- Zetobal 3y ago
- matonias 3y agoIf it was legal enough it would not be necessary
- crest 3y agoKnowing that an other vehicle is under computer instead of human control can be useful to (human) drivers.
- ComputerGuru 3y agoI would think that you cannot see the blue light on the front of the vehicle (e.g. in your own rear-view mirror if driving in front of it) with the MB's headlights on.
- ProfessorLayton 3y agoIf this new tail light color becomes street legal you can bet people are going to install it on their cars regardless of autonomous driving capabilities.
- systems 3y agothey can easily make that illegal, i mean make it illegal to install blue light on non self driving cars, or while not self driving
- jessriedel 3y agoI'm sure it is illegal as part of the new regulation. The color is legally reserved for a particular car mode. Likewise, you can't have bright red lights that turn on-and-off when you're not braking because that light behavior is legal but reserved for the braking mode.) (It's true that this will be more difficult to enforce than prohibitions against using darker blue, since a regular passenger car using them is clearly a violation, whereas pulling someone over for the light blue will presumably require the officer to have probable cause that the car is not self-driving.)
- Hasnep 3y ago> you can't have bright red lights that turn on-and-off when you're not braking because that light behavior is legal but reserved for the braking mode. Except in the US where indicator lights (turn signals) can be red.
- ProfessorLayton 3y agoMaking it illegal is easy, but that's not necessarily true for enforcing said regulation. Unless we expect law enforcement to memorize which make and model should have blue lights, increasing year by year. That, or a much more technologically invasive solution like letting cops see into car's driving mode remotely which is a whole other can of worms.
- deleted 3y ago
- cromulent 3y agoI’ve always wanted another light on cars to signal approval. Thank you, you’re welcome, go ahead. Also, front brake lights for people to see you are braking. Pedestrian crossings, intersection cross turns etc. At least I know it’s possible now.
- wanderingstan 3y agoAs my friend pointed out, on the road everyone has extreme autism; only one ambiguous signal for conveying any emotion.
- PlunderBunny 3y agoWhere I am (New Zealand), turning on the emergency lights while driving for 2 or 3 ‘blinks’ is understood to mean ‘thank you’.
- ApolIllo 3y agoTruck drivers do that in the US. I do that in my car, too. Sometimes it's too dark to see the handwave out the back window.
- cromulent 3y agoI used to do that in Australia, using the "hazard lights". In Finland, they are indeed called "emergency lights" and the police are rather strict about using them only in emergencies - e.g. not when simply pulled over to use your phone or calm your toddler.
- crabsand 3y agoThis is true for Turkey as well.
- bonestamp2 3y agoYa, or several different horn sounds.
- dist-epoch 3y ago> Also, front brake lights for people to see you are braking. Pedestrian crossings The safer thing to do is just estimate the speed of the car and it's breaking. I never cross if it's obvious that at current speed/deceleration I don't have time to clear it. This tends to frustrate drivers because it makes them break harder (since I don't start crossing while looking at them) and it takes me longer to cross (since I start later), but I don't care.
- sroussey 3y ago> Mercedes’ Drive Pilot allows the driver to take their eyes off the road continuously This is so people/police/whatever don’t go thinking the driver is doing something illegal when not paying attention.
- kelnos 3y agoYes, that's what the article says.
- data-ottawa 3y agoAs a colourblind person my first thought is: why is your car in reverse on the freeway I hope this never ships as is, because it's not a safe design as is, but I like the idea.
- switch007 3y agoAs a non colourblind person I thought the same!
- jessriedel 3y agoIsn't reverse white light? If your colorblindness prevents you from distinguishing turquoise from white, I think that is an extremely rare condition? The vast majority of color blindness is red-green at ~0.5% of the population (or ~2% if you include very mild forms). The next most prevalent type, I think, is blue-yellow (mostly tritan CVD) at 0.01%.
- data-ottawa 3y agoIt’s actually very common. The obvious place most red/green colourblind people will have issues is differentiating red from green where the cones (would normally) overlap, but with only two cones if you saturate both of them equally there’s no additional signal to tell if you’re looking at a colour or white light. The point at which a red-blind person’s green sensitivity intersect with blue is cyan, and for a green-blind person it’s green-cyan (turquoise), so depending on the tone/shade of turquoise it appears white to most colourblind people.
- tromp 3y agoFor people finding their browser blocked by cnn: https://www.ocregister.com/2023/12/19/mercedes-adds-a-new-car-light-color-blue-for-self-driving/ https://www.ocregister.com/2023/12/19/mercedes-adds-a-new-ca...
- asimovfan 3y agoIsn't blue light really bad for eyes
- tempestn 3y agoNo, it's not.
- wkat4242 3y agoYes it is. It can damage retinal cells. But this isn't deep blue and not very bright. https://health.ucdavis.edu/blog/cultivating-health/blue-light-effects-on-your-eyes-sleep-and-health/2022/08 https://health.ucdavis.edu/blog/cultivating-health/blue-ligh...
- tempestn 3y agoThere's research showing that extended exposure to (extremely bright) sunlight can damage the eyes. There's no research I'm aware of showing that blue spectrum light from, eg., a computer or cellphone screen, which is what people are usually concerned with, can do damage. (And obviously nothing about blue lights on cars, but clearly they're not going to be particularly bright either.)
- tempestn 3y agoThe feature actually sounds amazing if you had to commute in heavy traffic every day. I wouldn't trust a fully autonomous system at highway speed yet, but under 40mph in a traffic jam, and I can read a book? Sign me up.
- roughly 3y agoI know it's a trite comment at this point, but that used to be my commute on the train.
- PlunderBunny 3y agoDitto my commute in the bus to and from work. People wince when I tell them it takes me ~45 minutes to go to work, and the same amount of time to go back home, but 30 minutes of each trip is done with my laptop open working, meaning I only need to spend 7 hours in the office each day.
- mattlondon 3y agoOutside of the US, blue is often used for police and emergency services due to biology reasons (visibility for those with poor eyesight) I think a "special colour" for autonomous cars is a good idea, but I wonder what the colour will be in e.g. Europe
- tw04 3y ago>Outside of the US, blue is often used for police and emergency services due to biology reasons (visibility for those with poor eyesight) Flashing blue is used for police and emergency vehicles in the US as well and is illegal to use for other purposes in all the states I've bothered to know the local laws of (city/state snow plows being the one exception I believe). This light is very much not blue, it's turquoise which they say in the article. I have no idea why they say blue in the title because people definitely don't think "turquoise" when they hear "blue".
- Aloha 3y agoSometimes its blue, sometimes its red and blue in combination.
- joemi 3y agoBlue is also used for police in the US for flashing lights, usually in combination with red. But Mercedes use is for running lights near headlights and tail lights, so I guess that's different enough?
- anonu 3y agoTurquoise is not blue. Blue is for police and shouldn't be used on passenger cars in the US.
- croisillon 3y agolet's spell it out: a new color to alert of a new danger
- Aloha 3y agoI think this is conceptually a good idea, even if this implementation and color choice may leave something to be desired. The idea that there would be a pilot lamp for self driving itself is a good idea - and while I think this color is fine (ships use green lights for starboard for example) - its obvious from reactions here that further thought and discussion is needed on the matter. I think once we can agree on a color/mode of operation, a self driving pilot lamp should be a legal requirement - particularly as a means to enhance pedestrian safety.
- pushfoo 3y agoAdding shape or location is better than color alone. For example, most countries accommodate color-blind drivers by standardizing the ordering and orientation of traffic lights in addition to the colors. In the US, there's no shape variation, but some other countries add it.
- Aloha 3y agoAnother good option to consider.
- ahahahahah 3y ago> its obvious from reactions here that further thought and discussion is needed on the matter. No, its obvious from reaction here that commenters here have the completely misguided belief that experts in fields somehow are unable to consider the little pet topics that each of those commenters come up with. Everything brought up here was considered when choosing that light color. You can read all about how the SAE choose that color here: https://wiki.unece.org/download/attachments/75532788/AVSR-03-02e.pdf?api=v2 https://wiki.unece.org/download/attachments/75532788/AVSR-03...
- Smoosh 3y ago> commenters here have the completely misguided belief that experts in fields somehow are unable to consider the little pet topics that each of those commenters come up with Welcome to discussion forums on the Internet.
- RajT88 3y agoFor me the major story here is that progress is good enough that a car manufacturer is actually trying to tackle this problem: > Only California and Nevada have approved the new light color. Those are the only states where Mercedes’ “conditionally autonomous” Drive Pilot technology is legal. > Mercedes Drive Pilot can be used in traffic jams on selected major highways when vehicles are traveling at less than 40 miles an hour. Under those conditions, the driver can take their feet off the pedals, let go of the steering wheel and — this is where is it differs from any other driver assistance system — completely take their eyes off the road. It's stuff like this that makes me excited that we really will have totally self-driving cars one day - in our lifetimes, and maybe not that far down the line.
- Sohcahtoa82 3y agoMercedes is making a huge gamble, IMO. If their autonomy fails to notice a hazard and causes a crash, they're setting themselves up to take ALL liability by telling drivers they don't need to pay attention. Compare that to Tesla which says the driver still needs to watch the road and be ready take over, which implies Tesla wants to push any liability for failures onto the driver. This distinction is what separates L2 and L3 autonomy. Yet...Tesla's AP is certainly capable of L3, especially if you were to limit its usage in the same way as Mercedes, but Tesla doesn't want liability.
- RajT88 3y agoTesla is way behind Waymo, apparently. L3 is coming. Especially if legislation is made which can mitigate the risk to the manufacturers.
- whatever1 3y agoTesla will not need it in the near future.
- HackeNewsFan234 3y agoThis will allow me to do something I've been looking forward to - When a car is running autonomously, I can turn in front of it because I know it will stop. Think of making a left turn across traffic in an almost-big-enough gap. If it is a meatbag driver, it might hit me. If it is autonomous, it should auto-brake. I'm not talking about a slam on the brakes scenario, just a little bit of a slowdown so I can make a gap that I wouldn't otherwise attempt. Need to merge? Cut off the autonomous car.
- Animats 3y agoWaymo's typical accident, from the CA DMV reports, is this: - Waymo vehicle comes to a required stop before entering an intersection. - View of the cross street is obstructed when stopped at the stop line. - Waymo advances into intersection far enough to see cross traffic. - Cross traffic is detected, and Waymo stops. - Trailing vehicle rear-ends Waymo vehicle at low speed. That's happened at least half a dozen times. There's one location in Mountain View where there's a tree in the median strip that obstructs the car-top scanner when the Waymo is stopped at the stop line. Two rear-end collisions at that location so far. As far as I know, no Waymo vehicle has ever entered an intersection and been hit by previously occluded cross traffic. Many human drivers get T-boned in such situations. So this is a good design. One way to prevent those minor rear-end collisions would be slightly different brake light usage. When moving slowly forward, likely to stop suddenly, and there is another vehicle close behind, flash the brake lights rapidly to get the trailing vehicle to back off. Drivers would understand that.
- bell-cot 3y agoCynical old geezer "fix": Add big, obvious trailer hitches to Waymo vehicles. Following drivers notice, realize that fender-benders would be far more expensive for them, and stay a reasonable distance back.
- daft_pink 3y agoAs someone who drives a car with adaptive cruise control, that's awesome. My car leaves a safe following distance and sometimes people behind me expect me to react to their tailgaiting or aggression. Having an indicator that clearly indicates the car is driving automatically should reduce aggressive driving over time. Also I worry sometimes that other drivers will think I'm boxing them in, but it's only the car leaving a safe following distance and is completely automatic. I want to say.... "It's the automated driving function" to those people.
- _rs 3y agoOn the other hand, if they're boxed in and unable to maneuver, does it really matter the reason behind it?
- Spivak 3y agoMy solution to that problem is bring more oblivious than they are mad. You can get 1" behind my car for all I care I won't even notice.
- daft_pink 3y agoI've been driving for years and I don't brake check tailgaters, but I don't accelerate either. The only times someone has rear ended me was when I stopped at a traffic light and they weren't paying attention, so as much as people try to intimidate you, it's rare they will actually hit if you are driving in a reasonable manner, so I think it's actually fairly safe. I would like to reduce peoples stress though and I feel like indicating that your vehicle is in some sort of automated mode would likely reduce other drivers stress and generally be beneficial.
- Gud 3y agoFrom the article: ”Browser Blocked We apologize, but your web browser is configured in such a way that it is preventing this site from implementing required components that protect your privacy and allow you to view and change your privacy settings. This functionality is required for privacy legislation in your region. We recommend you use a different browser or disable the “EasyList Cookie” filter from your “Content Filtering” settings (found under “Settings” -> “Shields” in the Brave Browser).” Is this now the recommended way of dealing with users who use adblockers? talking down to them?
- simonblack 3y agoMy Mercedes already uses a blue colour for automatic dipping of headlights and other automated headlight activity. But that blue is a definite mid-blue.