4 ms·

You'd switch your entire OS before trying an alternative accessibility program or a DE that comes with one? What's the state of accessibility on Gnome for examp

You'd switch your entire OS before trying an alternative accessibility program or a DE that comes with one? What's the state of accessibility on Gnome for example that seems to come with batteries included? I'm not trying to be rude just genuinely curious, and I also don't use a DE, wayland or accessibility, so I have no horse in the game.

Unfrozen0688 3y ago
If he/she is used to the program and wants to use it... yea? Why not? I run the OS that runs the programs I want to use.
- 627467 3y ago
  Not sure why you're being down voted: not everyone cares about all levels of the software stack. Most people can be perfectly functional as long as they see a "Google chrome" icon anywhere on the display and once in chrome they feel at home. There's an entire OS built around chrome. Why wouldn't someone ditch an OS for another to keep using the software they want?
  - Dylan16807 3y ago
    > Not sure why you're being down voted Probably because it was a legitimate question out of curiosity with a couple sub-questions, and "why not" is a dismissal rather than an answer.
SCdF 3y ago
Talon is what I would describe as accessibility for programmers (my definition, not the developer's!). You effectively write software that replaces keyboard and mouse usage, generically, flexibly and programmatically. So when you write commands you bind them in different way: app specific[1], feature specific[2][3], OS-specific, hecking __programming language specific__[4] etc, and then talon mixes and matches all of that stuff together. So let's say I have VSCode focused on a javascript file . Talon knows this, and so I have "panel switch" which is a vscode specific command, and "op strict equal" to insert ` === `, but I also have generic text editing commands (because it's an editor), and multi cursor commands (because vscode has been tagged as multi cursor supporting), and tab commands (because vscode is a tab-based editor), and so on and so on. If I then switched to the browser I would keep the generic text editing commands, and the tab commands, as it supports both of those things, but I would no longer have multi cursor support (or JS commands), because my browser doesn't support that. This also means you can by and large use the same talon config (and so the same voice commands) on windows, mac and x11. So for me switching to windows is actually less of a pain because most of the ways I interact with my computer don't actually change, as talon abstracts that away quite a bit. [1] https://github.com/talonhub/community/blob/main/apps/vscode/vscode.talon https://github.com/talonhub/community/blob/main/apps/vscode/... / https://github.com/talonhub/community/blob/main/apps/vscode/vscode.py https://github.com/talonhub/community/blob/main/apps/vscode/... [2] https://github.com/talonhub/community/blob/main/core/windows_and_tabs/tabs.talon https://github.com/talonhub/community/blob/main/core/windows... [3] where vscode gets its features "bound" https://github.com/talonhub/community/blob/main/apps/vscode/vscode.talon#L4-L8 https://github.com/talonhub/community/blob/main/apps/vscode/... [4] https://github.com/talonhub/community/blob/main/lang/javascript/javascript.talon https://github.com/talonhub/community/blob/main/lang/javascr...
- Semaphor 3y ago
  That is one incredibly cool piece of software.
- eviks 3y ago
  Is it app state specific? Can it detect a text box within an app? Or a text box while in Insert mode in a vim-like app?
  - SCdF 3y ago
    By and large it's not that smart, no. For example[1] it doesn't know if you're using VSCode that you have focused the inbuilt terminal, and so it should now accept terminal commands (eg "cd <whatever>") until you focus back. It knows about the language that you are using because you have configured your text editor to have the file name in the window name, which it can reliably read. This is also how you have website specific configuration. [1] last I checked! I think there was some work to try to solve this problem, I'm not sure where they got to though, I kind of went down my own configuration fork for a while
  - rntz 3y ago
    With Talon on Mac I believe this is possible (Mac has surprisingly nice accessibility APIs), but I don't know whether Talon on X11 can do it. If it's possible it would probably(?) involve rolling your own at-spi stuff.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - phatskat 3y ago
      Apple in general seems to really embrace accessibility. I remember using the screen reader back in middle school because it was “cool”, and now some 25 years later I can see that it was the tip of the accessibility iceberg. My iPhone has just _tons_ of accessibility features that I’ll probably never use, but that are invaluable to people experiencing all kinds of accessibility hurdles in their daily life. I can’t speak much to windows accessibility, although Mouse Keys got me through several rough times in my life where I fried or broke my mouse in some way or another. I do think windows has improved with time, at least by accidentally triggering the screen reading in W10 more times than I’d care to admit

Unfrozen0688 3y ago

If he/she is used to the program and wants to use it... yea? Why not? I run the OS that runs the programs I want to use.

627467 3y ago
Not sure why you're being down voted: not everyone cares about all levels of the software stack. Most people can be perfectly functional as long as they see a "Google chrome" icon anywhere on the display and once in chrome they feel at home. There's an entire OS built around chrome. Why wouldn't someone ditch an OS for another to keep using the software they want?
- Dylan16807 3y ago
  > Not sure why you're being down voted Probably because it was a legitimate question out of curiosity with a couple sub-questions, and "why not" is a dismissal rather than an answer.

SCdF 3y ago

Talon is what I would describe as accessibility for programmers (my definition, not the developer's!). You effectively write software that replaces keyboard and mouse usage, generically, flexibly and programmatically. So when you write commands you bind them in different way: app specific[1], feature specific[2][3], OS-specific, hecking __programming language specific__[4] etc, and then talon mixes and matches all of that stuff together. So let's say I have VSCode focused on a javascript file . Talon knows this, and so I have "panel switch" which is a vscode specific command, and "op strict equal" to insert ` === `, but I also have generic text editing commands (because it's an editor), and multi cursor commands (because vscode has been tagged as multi cursor supporting), and tab commands (because vscode is a tab-based editor), and so on and so on. If I then switched to the browser I would keep the generic text editing commands, and the tab commands, as it supports both of those things, but I would no longer have multi cursor support (or JS commands), because my browser doesn't support that. This also means you can by and large use the same talon config (and so the same voice commands) on windows, mac and x11. So for me switching to windows is actually less of a pain because most of the ways I interact with my computer don't actually change, as talon abstracts that away quite a bit. [1] https://github.com/talonhub/community/blob/main/apps/vscode/vscode.talon https://github.com/talonhub/community/blob/main/apps/vscode/... / https://github.com/talonhub/community/blob/main/apps/vscode/vscode.py https://github.com/talonhub/community/blob/main/apps/vscode/... [2] https://github.com/talonhub/community/blob/main/core/windows_and_tabs/tabs.talon https://github.com/talonhub/community/blob/main/core/windows... [3] where vscode gets its features "bound" https://github.com/talonhub/community/blob/main/apps/vscode/vscode.talon#L4-L8 https://github.com/talonhub/community/blob/main/apps/vscode/... [4] https://github.com/talonhub/community/blob/main/lang/javascript/javascript.talon https://github.com/talonhub/community/blob/main/lang/javascr...

Semaphor 3y ago
That is one incredibly cool piece of software.
eviks 3y ago
Is it app state specific? Can it detect a text box within an app? Or a text box while in Insert mode in a vim-like app?
- SCdF 3y ago
  By and large it's not that smart, no. For example[1] it doesn't know if you're using VSCode that you have focused the inbuilt terminal, and so it should now accept terminal commands (eg "cd <whatever>") until you focus back. It knows about the language that you are using because you have configured your text editor to have the file name in the window name, which it can reliably read. This is also how you have website specific configuration. [1] last I checked! I think there was some work to try to solve this problem, I'm not sure where they got to though, I kind of went down my own configuration fork for a while
- rntz 3y ago
  With Talon on Mac I believe this is possible (Mac has surprisingly nice accessibility APIs), but I don't know whether Talon on X11 can do it. If it's possible it would probably(?) involve rolling your own at-spi stuff.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - phatskat 3y ago
    Apple in general seems to really embrace accessibility. I remember using the screen reader back in middle school because it was “cool”, and now some 25 years later I can see that it was the tip of the accessibility iceberg. My iPhone has just _tons_ of accessibility features that I’ll probably never use, but that are invaluable to people experiencing all kinds of accessibility hurdles in their daily life. I can’t speak much to windows accessibility, although Mouse Keys got me through several rough times in my life where I fried or broke my mouse in some way or another. I do think windows has improved with time, at least by accidentally triggering the screen reading in W10 more times than I’d care to admit