5 ms·

Lidl does this too – the rotary tool Parkside PFBS 12 B3 comes with a charger that's obviously not USB-PD, but has an USB-C plug and it puts out a solid 13 volt

by akx 3y ago

Lidl does this too – the rotary tool Parkside PFBS 12 B3 comes with a charger that's obviously not USB-PD, but has an USB-C plug and it puts out a solid 13 volts at all times. (See https://www.kompernass.com/en/accessories/2316/charger-8 https://www.kompernass.com/en/accessories/2316/charger-8 for an image.) I sent Lidl a courteous and long mail about this and they didn't really care other than "please open a service ticket with your local Lidl", which I didn't care to do since what would they do?

robin_reala 3y ago
Is there any EU body you can report them to?
- Faark 3y ago
  Well, i had the same question and looking for this & the rules in general was... lets call it "a fun evening". Those common charger EU rules pushing USB-C via the Radio Equipment Directive are actually only for the device, and even a specific list of types. But in briefing document [2] (made for RED change last year) mentions: > a separate initiative on the eco-design for the external power supply (EPS) would harmonise the EPS-side receptacle and the communication protocol. So "EPS" is what we are looking for and they use some eco laws to regulate them. [1] gives an overview and links COMMISSION REGULATION (EU) 2019/1782. And again, it only applies to a specific set of devices, with power tools not being listed. Doubt those fall under "Other toys, leisure and sports equipment"^^ Back to that EPS initiative... from my understanding, it [3] seems to be still "Planned for Third quarter 2023". Feedback period ended in May 2022, ofc. The department seems to have vacant spot [4] for an expert, btw :) [1] https://commission.europa.eu/energy-climate-change-environment/standards-tools-and-labels/products-labelling-rules-and-requirements/energy-label-and-ecodesign/energy-efficient-products/external-power-supplies_en https://commission.europa.eu/energy-climate-change-environme... [2] https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/BRIE/2021/698819/EPRS_BRI(2021)698819_EN.pdf https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/BRIE/2021/6988... [3] https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/better-regulation/have-your-say/initiatives/13351-External-power-supplies-ecodesign-information-requirements-review-_en https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/better-regulation/have-your-sa... [4] https://www.cnr.it/sites/default/files/public/media/internazionale/bandi_end/ENER-B-3_EN.docx https://www.cnr.it/sites/default/files/public/media/internaz...
iamflimflam1 3y ago
Report them to trading standards.
sod 3y ago
> courteous and long How about urgent and short? e.g. One day a kid will charge their toy over night with your 13v usb-c charger and they'll burn their house down.
- mint2 3y ago
  Just a little too short, add: “and this email notification demonstrates you are aware of the hazard which will be relevant in lawsuits.”
  - s1artibartfast 3y ago
    and they will respond with "We sincerely thank you for your concern. We have a 6 month email retention policy in place to address your issue"
    - anotherboffin 3y ago
      Hypothetically, and just out of curiosity: if mint2 were to keep this email and it would be included as part of the evidence in a lawsuit, how would this bode for Lidl?
      - sokoloff 3y ago
        Assuming it wasn't mint2 that had the fire, it would almost surely go undetected in discovery. (Lidl would say "as required, we've searched for and provided all emails and care contacts referencing USB chargers".)
    - _a_a_a_ 3y ago
      If you can't add anything useful, stay out. Although I wonder if it was your house to burn down whether you might feel a little differently about doing the right thing. The answer is, you CC trading standards(Or your country's equivalent) as well.
      - s1artibartfast 3y ago
pests 3y ago
> long People don't like to read. Short & concise wins the day here.
kristjansson 3y ago
So instead of a barrel plug, they ... made a barrel plug shaped like a USB-C connector?
MilaM 3y ago
I have the same tool and charger and only noticed the out-of-spec voltage after trying to charge the tool with a regular USB-C cable and charger. It's really disappointing someone thought this is a good design. Newer revisions of the tool don't seem to have this flaw though. They only come with a USB-C cable and no charger in the box. Also thanks for reminding me to put a big sticker on the charger with a warning!
raxxorraxor 3y ago
Like those self-installed USB-chargers that are directly connected to your car battery. Can work sometimes, but you need robust devices. Probably a side effect when USB-PD was introduced and people neglected the facts that there needs to be an elaborate handshake for anything other than 5V. Previously we always needed to check non-USB chargers for their voltage and there were connectors and adapters for different sizes. But now you need to be more careful with USB as well.
fennecbutt 3y ago
As much as people hate on the EU, this is their sort of jam, EU should ban misuse of things like USB. Bam, problem solved. They even sorted out "we wer alwuz planin 2 use USB c, it wuz our plan all alung" Apple.

by akx 3y ago

robin_reala 3y ago

Is there any EU body you can report them to?

Faark 3y ago
Well, i had the same question and looking for this & the rules in general was... lets call it "a fun evening". Those common charger EU rules pushing USB-C via the Radio Equipment Directive are actually only for the device, and even a specific list of types. But in briefing document [2] (made for RED change last year) mentions: > a separate initiative on the eco-design for the external power supply (EPS) would harmonise the EPS-side receptacle and the communication protocol. So "EPS" is what we are looking for and they use some eco laws to regulate them. [1] gives an overview and links COMMISSION REGULATION (EU) 2019/1782. And again, it only applies to a specific set of devices, with power tools not being listed. Doubt those fall under "Other toys, leisure and sports equipment"^^ Back to that EPS initiative... from my understanding, it [3] seems to be still "Planned for Third quarter 2023". Feedback period ended in May 2022, ofc. The department seems to have vacant spot [4] for an expert, btw :) [1] https://commission.europa.eu/energy-climate-change-environment/standards-tools-and-labels/products-labelling-rules-and-requirements/energy-label-and-ecodesign/energy-efficient-products/external-power-supplies_en https://commission.europa.eu/energy-climate-change-environme... [2] https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/BRIE/2021/698819/EPRS_BRI(2021)698819_EN.pdf https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/BRIE/2021/6988... [3] https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/better-regulation/have-your-say/initiatives/13351-External-power-supplies-ecodesign-information-requirements-review-_en https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/better-regulation/have-your-sa... [4] https://www.cnr.it/sites/default/files/public/media/internazionale/bandi_end/ENER-B-3_EN.docx https://www.cnr.it/sites/default/files/public/media/internaz...

iamflimflam1 3y ago

Report them to trading standards.

sod 3y ago

> courteous and long How about urgent and short? e.g. One day a kid will charge their toy over night with your 13v usb-c charger and they'll burn their house down.

mint2 3y ago
Just a little too short, add: “and this email notification demonstrates you are aware of the hazard which will be relevant in lawsuits.”
- s1artibartfast 3y ago
  and they will respond with "We sincerely thank you for your concern. We have a 6 month email retention policy in place to address your issue"
  - anotherboffin 3y ago
    Hypothetically, and just out of curiosity: if mint2 were to keep this email and it would be included as part of the evidence in a lawsuit, how would this bode for Lidl?
    - sokoloff 3y ago
      Assuming it wasn't mint2 that had the fire, it would almost surely go undetected in discovery. (Lidl would say "as required, we've searched for and provided all emails and care contacts referencing USB chargers".)
  - _a_a_a_ 3y ago
    If you can't add anything useful, stay out. Although I wonder if it was your house to burn down whether you might feel a little differently about doing the right thing. The answer is, you CC trading standards(Or your country's equivalent) as well.
    - s1artibartfast 3y ago

pests 3y ago

> long People don't like to read. Short & concise wins the day here.

kristjansson 3y ago

So instead of a barrel plug, they ... made a barrel plug shaped like a USB-C connector?

MilaM 3y ago

I have the same tool and charger and only noticed the out-of-spec voltage after trying to charge the tool with a regular USB-C cable and charger. It's really disappointing someone thought this is a good design. Newer revisions of the tool don't seem to have this flaw though. They only come with a USB-C cable and no charger in the box. Also thanks for reminding me to put a big sticker on the charger with a warning!

raxxorraxor 3y ago

Like those self-installed USB-chargers that are directly connected to your car battery. Can work sometimes, but you need robust devices. Probably a side effect when USB-PD was introduced and people neglected the facts that there needs to be an elaborate handshake for anything other than 5V. Previously we always needed to check non-USB chargers for their voltage and there were connectors and adapters for different sizes. But now you need to be more careful with USB as well.

fennecbutt 3y ago

As much as people hate on the EU, this is their sort of jam, EU should ban misuse of things like USB. Bam, problem solved. They even sorted out "we wer alwuz planin 2 use USB c, it wuz our plan all alung" Apple.