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In the UK you can buy a £100m apartment and pay virtually zero tax each year on it. That doesn't sound very high to me. Maybe taxes are high on the wrong people

In the UK you can buy a £100m apartment and pay virtually zero tax each year on it. That doesn't sound very high to me. Maybe taxes are high on the wrong people? > failed green policy What is a failed green policy? Sounds like a soundbite.

mcv 3y ago
Whatever policies we have, haven't really reduced out CO2 emissions nearly as much as they should. The biggest reduction was probably last winter when everybody turned the heat down to save gas because of the war in Ukraine. I think I heard somewhere that that was a 25% reduction in gas use.
- chii 3y ago
  > everybody turned the heat down and the weather was unusally warm. If it had been a bad winter, i doubt people will be so willing. > haven't really reduced out CO2 emissions nobody wants to pay the costs (neither collectively, nor privately) to do this. It's the fundamental reason why climate policy doesn't work. It has to be based on economics, and technological improvement - these takes quite a while methinks.
  - mcv 3y ago
    It was still pretty chilly. A warm winter may help, but lots of people did turn down their heat. I certainly did, and I intend to keep doing it. > It has to be based on economics, and technological improvement - these takes quite a while methinks. Technology does keep improving. What's lacking is the political will, and that's probably because of vested economic interests.
Geisterde 3y ago
I mean its public information that they were chopping down a historic and old growth forest for fuel and calling it green energy.
- walthamstow 3y ago
  The original post said that energy costs were high due to failed green policy. Do you have anything to add on that matter? In the UK we have Drax power plant in Yorkshire burning wood pellets shipped from North American forests and calling it green. I don't think it has much effect on overall global energy prices.
  - Geisterde 3y ago
    That is the price you pay. Energy prices are higher, are more subject to geo-political issues, and it still isnt green. I dont know how you got to global energy prices, 'the uk is paying the price for a failed green energy policy', the policy failed to deliver green energy, and now you have to pay for it in higher prices and be subject to the whims of foreign political leaders.
    - walthamstow 3y ago
      > I dont know how you got to global energy prices All energy prices are global. It's a global market. > Energy prices are higher The war reduced gas supply in Europe by closing pipelines and removing Russia from the supply market. Supply goes down, price goes up. It is my opinion that this impact on supply is the biggest, almost sole, driver of energy prices over the last 2 years. Can you explain how burning trees has caused high energy prices in a way that is distinct from the effect of the war?
      - Geisterde 3y ago
        Sure, energy is a ladder, energy production tuned for higher capital investment ventures have lower long term operating costs. There is an opportunity cost to investing in one policy, like green energy, versus another, like nuclear; they traded a cheap energy future for false advertising.
        walthamstow 3y ago
        Divesting from nuclear is a big problem, I agree. Anti-Nuclear has been the policy in Germany for decades. The UK has been investing massively in Wind for decades. The prices only went up after the war in 2021.
originalvichy 3y ago
That a massive share of Europe is still dependant on natural gas for things like heating and cooking. In the Nordics housing in populated areas are mostly a mix of district heating or electric heating, and the rest either have wood or some oir burner (people far away from the grid). In mainland Europe they don’t have a lot of wood to burn so gas from the Russian sphere of influence was a cheap solution that became an addiction that blew up in many peoples’ faces – even us in the north, due to the home energy markets being tied to natural gas
- walthamstow 3y ago
  It's interesting that you're coming at my question from the pov of 'we didn't go hard enough and decarbonise earlier'. That's not the vibe I got from my parent post, which I thought was 'we've gone too far, green policies are unnecessary/futile' though it was entirely unclear, which was why I wanted clarification. FWIW I basically agree with you. In the UK most people are reliant on natgas piped to the home for heating and hot water. It's a dense country and we have better options now.
tonyedgecombe 3y ago
>In the UK you can buy a £100m apartment and pay virtually zero tax each year on it. You will pay £11,911,250 in stamp duty though.

mcv 3y ago

Whatever policies we have, haven't really reduced out CO2 emissions nearly as much as they should. The biggest reduction was probably last winter when everybody turned the heat down to save gas because of the war in Ukraine. I think I heard somewhere that that was a 25% reduction in gas use.

chii 3y ago
> everybody turned the heat down and the weather was unusally warm. If it had been a bad winter, i doubt people will be so willing. > haven't really reduced out CO2 emissions nobody wants to pay the costs (neither collectively, nor privately) to do this. It's the fundamental reason why climate policy doesn't work. It has to be based on economics, and technological improvement - these takes quite a while methinks.
- mcv 3y ago
  It was still pretty chilly. A warm winter may help, but lots of people did turn down their heat. I certainly did, and I intend to keep doing it. > It has to be based on economics, and technological improvement - these takes quite a while methinks. Technology does keep improving. What's lacking is the political will, and that's probably because of vested economic interests.

Geisterde 3y ago

I mean its public information that they were chopping down a historic and old growth forest for fuel and calling it green energy.

walthamstow 3y ago
The original post said that energy costs were high due to failed green policy. Do you have anything to add on that matter? In the UK we have Drax power plant in Yorkshire burning wood pellets shipped from North American forests and calling it green. I don't think it has much effect on overall global energy prices.
- Geisterde 3y ago
  That is the price you pay. Energy prices are higher, are more subject to geo-political issues, and it still isnt green. I dont know how you got to global energy prices, 'the uk is paying the price for a failed green energy policy', the policy failed to deliver green energy, and now you have to pay for it in higher prices and be subject to the whims of foreign political leaders.
  - walthamstow 3y ago
    > I dont know how you got to global energy prices All energy prices are global. It's a global market. > Energy prices are higher The war reduced gas supply in Europe by closing pipelines and removing Russia from the supply market. Supply goes down, price goes up. It is my opinion that this impact on supply is the biggest, almost sole, driver of energy prices over the last 2 years. Can you explain how burning trees has caused high energy prices in a way that is distinct from the effect of the war?
    - Geisterde 3y ago
      Sure, energy is a ladder, energy production tuned for higher capital investment ventures have lower long term operating costs. There is an opportunity cost to investing in one policy, like green energy, versus another, like nuclear; they traded a cheap energy future for false advertising.
      - walthamstow 3y ago
        Divesting from nuclear is a big problem, I agree. Anti-Nuclear has been the policy in Germany for decades. The UK has been investing massively in Wind for decades. The prices only went up after the war in 2021.

originalvichy 3y ago

That a massive share of Europe is still dependant on natural gas for things like heating and cooking. In the Nordics housing in populated areas are mostly a mix of district heating or electric heating, and the rest either have wood or some oir burner (people far away from the grid). In mainland Europe they don’t have a lot of wood to burn so gas from the Russian sphere of influence was a cheap solution that became an addiction that blew up in many peoples’ faces – even us in the north, due to the home energy markets being tied to natural gas

walthamstow 3y ago
It's interesting that you're coming at my question from the pov of 'we didn't go hard enough and decarbonise earlier'. That's not the vibe I got from my parent post, which I thought was 'we've gone too far, green policies are unnecessary/futile' though it was entirely unclear, which was why I wanted clarification. FWIW I basically agree with you. In the UK most people are reliant on natgas piped to the home for heating and hot water. It's a dense country and we have better options now.

tonyedgecombe 3y ago

>In the UK you can buy a £100m apartment and pay virtually zero tax each year on it. You will pay £11,911,250 in stamp duty though.