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In many parts of the World, taxes are very high. That will push prices up. In Europe, we have to pay for the recklessness we threw money during the pandemic, f

In many parts of the World, taxes are very high. That will push prices up. In Europe, we have to pay for the recklessness we threw money during the pandemic, for the money we borrowed, for the money we printed out of thin air, for the very high energy prices due to failed green policy and for the war in Ukraine. People in other parts of the world have their share of problems, too.

kubb 3y ago
Germany has higher taxes than Switzerland, but the prices are much cheaper. Why? Rent, rent, rent, rent…
hef19898 3y ago
Taxes are a fixed percentage of whatever is sold, ubless taxes are raised (didn't happen yet) or new taxes are introduced (didn't happen neither), taxes have zero impact on prices. The money we threw at the pandemic, like everyone else in the developed world, avoided an economic crash worse than 2008. It resulted in inflation so, among other causes. The high energy prices were temporary and caused by the war in Ukraine, green energy policiies had nothing to do with that (if you want to thank someone that would be Putin).
- Shrezzing 3y ago
  I agree with your point in general, and disagree with the OP's sentiment. However, seigniorage via central bank Interest Rates is considered a tax by most economists (or at least most economists would reasonably accept an argument that it was tax as legitimate), and does materially impact prices. As a result, it's not entirely correct to say that tax rates haven't increased in Europe over the last 2 years.
  - hef19898 3y ago
    Interest rates were raised, across the board after inflation hit post covid, those hikes were a counter measure. I am no economist so, but the take that all taxes are bad, all governments are incompetent that all wouod be good if we had just done some super easy thing is at best lazy and worse case really dangerous. Easy answers to comolex questions is what gives us populists.
- Geisterde 3y ago
  Money printing didnt stop all the small businesses from closing down, its very easy to see the upward transfer of wealth that occured during the pandemic, it was the largest in history.
  - hef19898 3y ago
    >> The largest in history When do you think history started?
    - Geisterde 3y ago
      5000 years ago when jesus buried the dinosaur bones. Can you name a larger upward transfer of wealth?
      - hef19898 3y ago
        Let me see: The Great Recession in the 40s including hyperinflation in various countries. The settling of the American West. The colonisation of India. The Opium Wars. That list quite long actuallx. But of course everything we experuenced ourselves is worse than anything else that ever happened, right?
        Geisterde 3y ago
        I dont think any of those would qualify as an upward transfer of wealth at a magnitude close to the response to covid, but at least you pointed out some really mean stuff thats happened, same same?
cedilla 3y ago
You're not explaining why prices are high, you are justifying your existing beliefs about "money printing" and taxation. Costs (including taxes) are only very loosely related to prices. They only serve as a lower bound, and not even always that. Taxes are not the reason for the massive price increases. Indeed, you point out high energy prices, which were met with suspension of energy taxes in many European countries, with little effect. VAT was slashed for many sectors, still, prices went up. If anything, taxes are too low. Many tax rates are at a historic low. European billionaires stole a trillion Euros from the population last year alone. Why people are always so enraged about the taxes that pay for every single public utility instead of the unlimited greed of the hyperwealthy who don't even know what to do with their money because the luxury wharfs are completely booked out and they already own two private jets?
- fransje26 3y ago
  > Why people are always so enraged about the taxes that pay for every single public utility instead of the unlimited greed of the hyperwealthy Smoke and mirrors. They've managed to deflect the blame nicely, and we are dumb enough to believe that it is so. The same effect can be seen in the universal health care reactions in the US. Fascinating.
- chii 3y ago
  > stole a trillion Euros from the population valuation of stocks growing higher is not stealing. Using hyperbole is not making your argument any more convincing.
  - mplanchard 3y ago
    Not paying their fair share of taxes on those million dollar bonuses, continuously inflating executive salaries, and realized capital gains is absolutely stealing. Failing to pay their fair share of taxes on their corporations’ income is similarly stealing.
mrtksn 3y ago
IMHO there's another structural issue: Expansion of the "landed gentry" class. That is, people who own a property can live their whole life of it without single contribution to the society. They might own the property due to a sizeable contribution they made early on but lately a lot of people simply got lucky to be at the right place at the right time due to policies that favoured them or events that happen outside of their control or simply inherited the property. Those people are taking large portion of the output of the productive people and because of the regulations and market dynamics their wealth doesn't come down but even keeps climbing. Normally this would be reserved for the elites and can be tolerable and maybe even desirable but when you have that elite class large as today, the resources they take out of productive people gets very significant. For example, if someone who happened to own a shitty house in an area where a lot of people suddenly start come to work, they can extract much of the productive output of the companies and people there simply because its not feasible to build new housing due to regulations. When a company happens to solve the navigation needs of the world from SV, they happen to pay very significant chuck of their money to landlords in SV. The people who solved the worlds navigation needs might appear to be compensated handsomely actually don't keep the money for long, they transfer significant amount of it to landlords. Then you end up with something like 2 people who solved the navigation, 5 people who produced and serviced the consumption needs but 10 people compete for the output of these 5 people since 3 people did nothing but just got richer by keeping owning a property. Actually, these 3 people don't have to be property owners only, it can be anything that brings enough income for life without any further input to the society. Ideally, this wouldn't cause a problem because ideally they should have been living the good life for some huge contribution they made early on but due unfair market situation they ended up like lottery winners.
- Geisterde 3y ago
  I disagree with a few things youre saying, though I think your heart is in the right place, allow me a moment. People who own property pay property taxes, the truth is that almost no one owns property in america, even the rich, we only lease it from the government. Further, a rich persons contribution to society is that cellphones are cheap and powerful, that you can have anything from a couch to a christmas dinner delivered to your door, that any of us have free time enough to talk on the internet rather than sustenance farming. There is a big trick, they are robbing you, but knowing how is half the battle. As you say regulations push out competition, that is one factor; along with government spending which will always flow to connected interests; lastly a monetary system where the money can only exist when its loaned into existence by a private corporation, the Fed. Each of these have their respective mythos of justification, and an underlying purpose. Regulation is to protect the public despite the fact that the regulations only come after working conditions have already improved, and are passed after the well connected corporate interests have gained some advantage that would be difficult for smaller businesses to replicate. Government spending is sold as defending citizens from ner-do-wells foreign and domestic, or more modernly for providing for the downtrodden, whereas the vast majority of money flows into the military industrial complex, the pharmaceutical industry, the banks and other well connected interests. The existence of a private organization responsible for the creation of our money is sold as a way to keep prices stable, when the reality is it gives them dominion over the wealth of the population, by manipulating interest rates and banking regulations they can chronically steal the wealth out of the paper you work for.
walthamstow 3y ago
In the UK you can buy a £100m apartment and pay virtually zero tax each year on it. That doesn't sound very high to me. Maybe taxes are high on the wrong people? > failed green policy What is a failed green policy? Sounds like a soundbite.
- mcv 3y ago
  Whatever policies we have, haven't really reduced out CO2 emissions nearly as much as they should. The biggest reduction was probably last winter when everybody turned the heat down to save gas because of the war in Ukraine. I think I heard somewhere that that was a 25% reduction in gas use.
  - chii 3y ago
    > everybody turned the heat down and the weather was unusally warm. If it had been a bad winter, i doubt people will be so willing. > haven't really reduced out CO2 emissions nobody wants to pay the costs (neither collectively, nor privately) to do this. It's the fundamental reason why climate policy doesn't work. It has to be based on economics, and technological improvement - these takes quite a while methinks.
    - mcv 3y ago
      It was still pretty chilly. A warm winter may help, but lots of people did turn down their heat. I certainly did, and I intend to keep doing it. > It has to be based on economics, and technological improvement - these takes quite a while methinks. Technology does keep improving. What's lacking is the political will, and that's probably because of vested economic interests.
- Geisterde 3y ago
  I mean its public information that they were chopping down a historic and old growth forest for fuel and calling it green energy.
  - walthamstow 3y ago
croes 3y ago
We threw more money at the industrial-military complex and at banks after the banking crisis 2008.
- meowtimemania 3y ago
  seems like giving people money drives up prices more than giving money to big co's
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - croes 3y ago
    Of course, big cooperations don't like it if ordinary people get more money => greedflation

kubb 3y ago

Germany has higher taxes than Switzerland, but the prices are much cheaper. Why? Rent, rent, rent, rent…

hef19898 3y ago

Taxes are a fixed percentage of whatever is sold, ubless taxes are raised (didn't happen yet) or new taxes are introduced (didn't happen neither), taxes have zero impact on prices. The money we threw at the pandemic, like everyone else in the developed world, avoided an economic crash worse than 2008. It resulted in inflation so, among other causes. The high energy prices were temporary and caused by the war in Ukraine, green energy policiies had nothing to do with that (if you want to thank someone that would be Putin).

Shrezzing 3y ago
I agree with your point in general, and disagree with the OP's sentiment. However, seigniorage via central bank Interest Rates is considered a tax by most economists (or at least most economists would reasonably accept an argument that it was tax as legitimate), and does materially impact prices. As a result, it's not entirely correct to say that tax rates haven't increased in Europe over the last 2 years.
- hef19898 3y ago
  Interest rates were raised, across the board after inflation hit post covid, those hikes were a counter measure. I am no economist so, but the take that all taxes are bad, all governments are incompetent that all wouod be good if we had just done some super easy thing is at best lazy and worse case really dangerous. Easy answers to comolex questions is what gives us populists.
Geisterde 3y ago
Money printing didnt stop all the small businesses from closing down, its very easy to see the upward transfer of wealth that occured during the pandemic, it was the largest in history.
- hef19898 3y ago
  >> The largest in history When do you think history started?
  - Geisterde 3y ago
    5000 years ago when jesus buried the dinosaur bones. Can you name a larger upward transfer of wealth?
    - hef19898 3y ago
      Let me see: The Great Recession in the 40s including hyperinflation in various countries. The settling of the American West. The colonisation of India. The Opium Wars. That list quite long actuallx. But of course everything we experuenced ourselves is worse than anything else that ever happened, right?
      - Geisterde 3y ago
        I dont think any of those would qualify as an upward transfer of wealth at a magnitude close to the response to covid, but at least you pointed out some really mean stuff thats happened, same same?

cedilla 3y ago

You're not explaining why prices are high, you are justifying your existing beliefs about "money printing" and taxation. Costs (including taxes) are only very loosely related to prices. They only serve as a lower bound, and not even always that. Taxes are not the reason for the massive price increases. Indeed, you point out high energy prices, which were met with suspension of energy taxes in many European countries, with little effect. VAT was slashed for many sectors, still, prices went up. If anything, taxes are too low. Many tax rates are at a historic low. European billionaires stole a trillion Euros from the population last year alone. Why people are always so enraged about the taxes that pay for every single public utility instead of the unlimited greed of the hyperwealthy who don't even know what to do with their money because the luxury wharfs are completely booked out and they already own two private jets?

fransje26 3y ago
> Why people are always so enraged about the taxes that pay for every single public utility instead of the unlimited greed of the hyperwealthy Smoke and mirrors. They've managed to deflect the blame nicely, and we are dumb enough to believe that it is so. The same effect can be seen in the universal health care reactions in the US. Fascinating.
chii 3y ago
> stole a trillion Euros from the population valuation of stocks growing higher is not stealing. Using hyperbole is not making your argument any more convincing.
- mplanchard 3y ago
  Not paying their fair share of taxes on those million dollar bonuses, continuously inflating executive salaries, and realized capital gains is absolutely stealing. Failing to pay their fair share of taxes on their corporations’ income is similarly stealing.

mrtksn 3y ago

IMHO there's another structural issue: Expansion of the "landed gentry" class. That is, people who own a property can live their whole life of it without single contribution to the society. They might own the property due to a sizeable contribution they made early on but lately a lot of people simply got lucky to be at the right place at the right time due to policies that favoured them or events that happen outside of their control or simply inherited the property. Those people are taking large portion of the output of the productive people and because of the regulations and market dynamics their wealth doesn't come down but even keeps climbing. Normally this would be reserved for the elites and can be tolerable and maybe even desirable but when you have that elite class large as today, the resources they take out of productive people gets very significant. For example, if someone who happened to own a shitty house in an area where a lot of people suddenly start come to work, they can extract much of the productive output of the companies and people there simply because its not feasible to build new housing due to regulations. When a company happens to solve the navigation needs of the world from SV, they happen to pay very significant chuck of their money to landlords in SV. The people who solved the worlds navigation needs might appear to be compensated handsomely actually don't keep the money for long, they transfer significant amount of it to landlords. Then you end up with something like 2 people who solved the navigation, 5 people who produced and serviced the consumption needs but 10 people compete for the output of these 5 people since 3 people did nothing but just got richer by keeping owning a property. Actually, these 3 people don't have to be property owners only, it can be anything that brings enough income for life without any further input to the society. Ideally, this wouldn't cause a problem because ideally they should have been living the good life for some huge contribution they made early on but due unfair market situation they ended up like lottery winners.

Geisterde 3y ago
I disagree with a few things youre saying, though I think your heart is in the right place, allow me a moment. People who own property pay property taxes, the truth is that almost no one owns property in america, even the rich, we only lease it from the government. Further, a rich persons contribution to society is that cellphones are cheap and powerful, that you can have anything from a couch to a christmas dinner delivered to your door, that any of us have free time enough to talk on the internet rather than sustenance farming. There is a big trick, they are robbing you, but knowing how is half the battle. As you say regulations push out competition, that is one factor; along with government spending which will always flow to connected interests; lastly a monetary system where the money can only exist when its loaned into existence by a private corporation, the Fed. Each of these have their respective mythos of justification, and an underlying purpose. Regulation is to protect the public despite the fact that the regulations only come after working conditions have already improved, and are passed after the well connected corporate interests have gained some advantage that would be difficult for smaller businesses to replicate. Government spending is sold as defending citizens from ner-do-wells foreign and domestic, or more modernly for providing for the downtrodden, whereas the vast majority of money flows into the military industrial complex, the pharmaceutical industry, the banks and other well connected interests. The existence of a private organization responsible for the creation of our money is sold as a way to keep prices stable, when the reality is it gives them dominion over the wealth of the population, by manipulating interest rates and banking regulations they can chronically steal the wealth out of the paper you work for.

walthamstow 3y ago

In the UK you can buy a £100m apartment and pay virtually zero tax each year on it. That doesn't sound very high to me. Maybe taxes are high on the wrong people? > failed green policy What is a failed green policy? Sounds like a soundbite.

mcv 3y ago
Whatever policies we have, haven't really reduced out CO2 emissions nearly as much as they should. The biggest reduction was probably last winter when everybody turned the heat down to save gas because of the war in Ukraine. I think I heard somewhere that that was a 25% reduction in gas use.
- chii 3y ago
  > everybody turned the heat down and the weather was unusally warm. If it had been a bad winter, i doubt people will be so willing. > haven't really reduced out CO2 emissions nobody wants to pay the costs (neither collectively, nor privately) to do this. It's the fundamental reason why climate policy doesn't work. It has to be based on economics, and technological improvement - these takes quite a while methinks.
  - mcv 3y ago
    It was still pretty chilly. A warm winter may help, but lots of people did turn down their heat. I certainly did, and I intend to keep doing it. > It has to be based on economics, and technological improvement - these takes quite a while methinks. Technology does keep improving. What's lacking is the political will, and that's probably because of vested economic interests.
Geisterde 3y ago
I mean its public information that they were chopping down a historic and old growth forest for fuel and calling it green energy.
- walthamstow 3y ago

croes 3y ago

We threw more money at the industrial-military complex and at banks after the banking crisis 2008.

meowtimemania 3y ago
seems like giving people money drives up prices more than giving money to big co's
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- croes 3y ago
  Of course, big cooperations don't like it if ordinary people get more money => greedflation