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Commission opens formal proceedings against X under the Digital Services Act
- somenameforme 3y ago[flagged]
- okokwhatever 3y ago[flagged]
- johngladtj 3y ago[flagged]
- oezi 3y ago[flagged]
- collyw 3y ago[flagged]
- pavlov 3y agoMusk keeps repeating that X always follows local laws and regulations, but in practice it seems to only apply to countries like Turkey and Saudi Arabia. Curious.
- notimetorelax 3y agoI’m curious if X will manage to build up the moderation tools and automation without rehiring as many moderators as they used to have. Looking at the requirements, some of those challenging - preventing fast dissemination of illegal content.
- fabian2k 3y agoIf the recent leak about the moderation policies for Twitter is correct, they don't actually want to remove that kind of content. So it might not be a matter of not having enough moderators right now but also an intentional policy decision to not sanction posts like this. I can't find an English source here and the original is paywalled, but from a German article (https://www.heise.de/news/Leak-Leugnung-des-Holocaust-und-mehr-darf-auf-X-Twitter-nicht-geloescht-werden-9576825.html https://www.heise.de/news/Leak-Leugnung-des-Holocaust-und-me...) summarizing the original reporting comes the following example of a tweet that is allegedly allowed now: > Next stop on our tour across Poland is Auschwitz. For Jews this is the last stop, please exit and take your luggage with you. It also mentions that threats of physical are no longer a reason for suspending accounts.
- SuperNinKenDo 3y ago[flagged]
- rsynnott 3y agoBloody hell, that was an _example of a Tweet that they were okay with, in training material_?!
- wongarsu 3y agoIt isn't inciting violence, and despite what people say about Germans we haven't actually outlawed humor. The joke might be tasteless or insensitive, but I doubt it's illegal. Of course many platforms wouldn't want such content on their platform, but there is also a vocal portion of people who have long called for platforms to behave more like town halls or public plazas, letting public discourse run uncensored as long as it isn't illegal. That's exactly what Musk seems to be doing
- rsynnott 3y agoOh, I’m not saying it’s illegal anywhere (maybe France? France is particularly aggressive on this sort of thing), but I would imagine that some Twitter salespeople will be having _interesting_ conversations with remaining large advertisers about this; it doesn’t really gel with previous positioning (at least to advertisers).
- wongarsu 3y agoMusk didn't buy the company to make it gel with its previous positioning, for better or for worse. But I agree, it will be interesting if Twitter manages to retain any of the large advertisers, and if how they plan to become profitable again.
- kypro 3y agoIf you're critical of X allowing people to recite jokes about the holocaust, how do you feel about Netflix platforming similar jokes about genocides? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJurYs12ay4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJurYs12ay4) Do you feel some jokes are too offensive to be said? Do you feel the EU/UK are correct in their stance that offensive (aka hateful) jokes should be illegal?
- slim 3y agoHaving tried the "Added context" contributions, I think Twitter solved the moderation. It simply works. There's an abundance of free labor and it scales linearly with controversy/spread.
- Hamuko 3y ago>It simply works. Does it? Because I've seen it used to spread all sorts of bullshit, including against Musk/X. One case that comes to my mind when Musk wanted to make blocking to work the same as muting, and the false claim of it being against Apple's App Store rules was added as context.
- pjc50 3y agoBut that doesn't remove the content. It just sticks a label underneath it. And it's only on the most popular tweets.
- decremental 3y ago[dead]
- leadingthenet 3y agoThat’s a feature, not a bug.
- kcplate 3y ago
- threeseed 3y agoInteresting that it is timed with the recent launch of Threads in EU. Will definitely establish a compliance benchmark for X. But the big problem for X is that Musk burned so many bridges with fired employees that the list of whistleblowers for any issues will be endless.
- rsynnott 3y agoI think the timing is _probably_ coincidental, more down to a bunch of different things happening in European law currently than anything else. The Threads delay seems to be down to Digital Markets Act compliance tweaks (the DMA entered into force earlier this year); this is under the Digital Services Act, which enters into force in two weeks. > These are the first formal proceedings launched by the Commission to enforce the first EU-wide horizontal framework for online platforms' responsibility, just 3 years from its proposal. A mere 3 years! This is, in fairness, quite proactive by EC standards.
- Hamuko 3y ago>A mere 3 years! This is, in fairness, quite proactive by EC standards. Isn't that just because EU rules have quite long transition periods to give companies time to comply with the new rules? GDPR had a two-year transition period before enforcement, and even then there was tons of complaints towards the end of the two-year period on how there just wasn't enough time to comply.
- rsynnott 3y agoEven after that transition period, _serious_ enforcement didn’t start for years. Prior to 2021, the largest fine under the GDPR had been 50 million (in 2021-2023 the Irish regulator lurched into actual and fined Facebook a couple billion). I suspect the “local regulators do enforcement” model won’t feature heavily in future EU law; it doesn’t work very well.
- SiempreViernes 3y agoWell, there are many things that make the EC have a reputation of being slow. One thing is just the transition periods you mention, then there is the delays caused by the need to have legislation at the EU levels turned into actual national legislation to be implemented. Then there is the whole trialogue thing where, after first approving a draft law, the EP and the EC have to hold further negotiations on a common text while supervised by the Council, which tended to happen behind closed doors so the experience is that the contentious law that was just approved is quietly sucked into a black hole and then you might hear of it being passed only many many months later. Finally, we also have instances like with the Chapter 7 investigations against Orban where the commission knows the council is likely to block any conclusions so there's no point in rapidly pushing ahead.
- immibis 3y ago[flagged]
- orwin 3y agoNot flagging because it is more interesting than usual for a link about Twitter: it's the first time the law is used, and it also _strongly_ hint that they tried first to get access to the informations without legal proceedings. The legalese is strong, but I think most of it is understandable (which is surprising). But: Twitter is now like the 12th social network, who cares?
- ExoticPearTree 3y ago[flagged]
- RandomLensman 3y agoNothing EU specific. Most (all?) European countries have a very different view on freedom of speech than the US.
- focom 3y ago"Europe 2.0" aka "the usa" has a better free speech implementation than "Europe 1.0". So yes different as in bad.
- RandomLensman 3y agoWhat's your evidence for the assessment?
- pjc50 3y agoThe European free speech legal infrastructure dates from the ECHR in 1950, and was somewhat imposed by the Allies after the war. As well as a lot of people who wanted to avoid having populist incitement to genocide again.
- RandomLensman 3y agoThe limits on free speech in European countries are also much older in parts. The history in Europe on that topic is just very different from the US, I'd say.
- jongjong 3y agoThe EU government doesn't give a crap about unfair social media algorithms when they benefit their authoritarian agendas (at the expense of citizens) but as soon as soon as the algorithms go against their own agenda, they immediately launch a commission! And, ironically, the algorithms today are less constrained than they've ever been.
- RandomLensman 3y agoWhat authoritarian agenda? What commission?
- SiempreViernes 3y agoMaybe they saw something on youtube that said Von Der Leyen is going to the ISS? That's about the only way I can see "EU launches comission" make any sense. ;)
- jongjong 3y agoFor example, they were happy about social media platforms censoring or otherwise suppressing content which opposed the COVID19 vaccine mandates; they didn't raise any alarms there while there was actual substantial manipulation of the algorithms involved... But now that X has mostly removed filtering and manipulations from the algorithms, they begin proceedings against it! Just because they don't like the kind of content that people posted. They don't want people to have equal voice.
- RandomLensman 3y agoNot sure what the issue is? European countries not being allowed to have their own culture around speech (which rolls up into the EU to some extent)?
- jongjong 3y agoI don't think it's the job of EU government to manipulate the algorithms to suit their values. Their job is the opposite of that; to ensure that the algorithms operate with as little manipulation as possible so that every individual has equal voice/reach on these platforms (at least equal on a per-follower basis) with as little manipulation as possible. As someone who didn't have much prejudice about the current Israel/Palestine situation, I appreciated seeing both sides; it allowed me to come to the conclusion that both sides fall short of my own moral values and therefore I don't need to involve myself in debates about the lesser or two evils. Maybe other people with different morals than myself felt that one side met their 'good guy' threshold and wants to support them. They're free to voice their support, but I'd like to keep my taxpayer money in my own country where it can support people whose morals more closely align with my own.
- pjc50 3y agoInteresting that Community Notes is mentioned, because it's by far the most reliable anti-"disinformation" mechanism I've seen. The "bluecheck" system has been absolutely wrecked, though. Even with the haphazard patching of grey and gold ticks, a bluecheck more often than not is the sign of self-promoted nonsense.
- SiempreViernes 3y agoI know of one example where community notes was used to spread outright lies about the victim of police brutality a full day after the claims were disproven, so it still needs some work.
- fallingknife 3y agoOf course they will come after that. Because when the government says "remove disinformation" they mean "remove things that we don't like," and community notes doesn't do that.
- 2devnull 3y agoDid people actually rely on the bluechecks anyway in the first place? For me it was at best a slight help if I was trying to find a celebrity that had impersonators. I would be surprised if I’m a very typical user of course. But still I had the impression the bluecheck system was fondly replaced.
- rsynnott 3y ago> For me it was at best a slight help if I was trying to find a celebrity that had impersonators. Yes, that is literally what it was designed for, and the only thing it was useful for. It’s now, I suppose, useful for identifying people to avoid, but it’s no longer useful for preventing impersonation.
- fallingknife 3y agoIt was actually a great system. All those Elon free crypto giveaway scam accounts could make a profile that looked exactly like Elon Musk, but they couldn't get that blue check. It was great when it was a completely neutral system to state only "this account is who it says it is." But then they ruined it by removing the checks from people with unpopular political opinions, even though they were in fact the official account of that person, and then it became seen as a sort of political endorsement from Twitter.
- 6footgeek 3y agoSo what's the betting that X will be unavailable in Europe by end of day?
- flanked-evergl 3y agoI will take the counter bet, and even go as far as saying X will remain available in EU for the next month at least.
- fmajid 3y agoBecause X will have gone bankrupt and bust worldwide by then?
- flanked-evergl 3y agoNope, because I don't think X is going anywhere anytime soon, even though its demise is reported as inevitable at least every week.
- pjc50 3y agoOh, this procedure will be running for years. Expect a few rounds of "we're not complying / we are complying / oh no you're not" as well, each of which taking over a year.
- drooopy 3y agoDon't threaten me with a good time.
- troupo 3y agoMusk will run his mouth and then implement everything required.
- speak_plainly 3y agoLiberalism was meant to end this kind of EU censorship. Parliaments were supposed to be the place where diverse and illiberal speech was dissolved into a new liberal language, not through brain dead regulation and technocratism. If Meta properties are the example of what to expect from the future locked-down internet, prepare for the internet and much more to wither on the vine and die a slow and sad death.
- troupo 3y ago> If Meta properties are the example of what to expect Then you see why governments end up regulating them. Not because "liberalism was meant to do something magical"
- the_only_law 3y ago[flagged]
- pseudo0 3y agoJust pull out of the EU. It's overtly hostile to freedom of speech. Run Twitter from the US, and let the EU erect their own "Great Firewall" if they want to block it. F500s (or at least the ones still advertising) can pay for ads through their US subsidiaries, and the handful of remaining Twitter employees in Europe can either take a relocation package or severance.
- lapinot 3y agoHow is fighting against dark patterns, opaque and arbitrary moderation decisions (among other things) an attack on (your very american conception of) free speech?
- pseudo0 3y agoThey seem largely focused on "illegal content", specifically referencing the Oct 7 attack on Israel: > concerned the dissemination of illegal content in the context of Hamas' terrorist attacks against Israel > The compliance with the DSA obligations related to countering the dissemination of illegal content in the EU, notably in relation to the risk assessment and mitigation measures adopted by X to counter the dissemination of illegal content in the EU, as well as the functioning of the notice and action mechanism for illegal content in the EU mandated by the DSA, including in light of X's content moderation resources. At least in the US, footage of a terrorist attack is not illegal. In fact, it often serves important journalistic and public interest purposes. Twitter is an important source of first-hand coverage of conflicts such as the Israel/Hamas conflict and the Russian invasion of Ukraine. EU safetyism threatens to interfere with this important function.
- immibis 3y agoPart of the German government is trying to make it illegal to say bad things about Israel.
- timeon 3y ago"freedom of speech" is just Virtue signalling. Not sure why would Twitter leave EU - Musk's Twitter has no problem suppressing freedom of speech, like in that case of Turkey.
- demondemidi 3y agoDisappointing that the vast majority of top levels here are describing the EU as some sort of totalitarian police state. It does respect rights. Do the people in the USA think that every country should let its citizens act like uneducated armed griefers?
- logicchains 3y ago>EU as some sort of totalitarian police state Because it (or parts of it) were recently trying to ban private online communication, which is exactly what a totalitarian police state does.
- logicchains 3y agoTo people downvoting the above, you should inform yourselves better: https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-commission-violation-privacy-endangering-encryption/ https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-commission-violation-priv... . The EU Commission has been trying to ban end-to-end encryption, which is functionally equivalent to a ban on private online communication.
- logicchains 3y agohttps://www.politico.eu/article/eu-commission-violation-privacy-endangering-encryption/ https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-commission-violation-priv... trying to ban end to end encryption is the opposite of respecting rights.
- dotandgtfo 3y agoChat control was struck down last month and was never going to go through anyways as just having a cursory understanding of technology is enough to understand that banning end to end encryption is infeasible. And chat control being struck down was in part on the grounds of respecting rights around private correspondence so you're just spreading factually wrong information for no good reason.
- xvector 3y ago
- nbzso 3y ago[flagged]
- Exendroinient23 3y agoEU just wants to regulate everything. Recent ai regulations are very bad. Purposefully nerfing yourself at the technology front isn't a solution.
- logicchains 3y ago>Purposefully nerfing yourself at the technology front isn't a solution It is a solution if the problem is "preventing anything that could challenge the entrenched elites".
- Exendroinient23 3y agoIt doesn't have to anything with elites. EU just likes to virtue signal on climate change and new technologies by introducing regulations to keep status quo. Keeping jobs for the sake of only keeping jobs doesn't make any productive sense.
- westcort 3y agoJust make a new rule that you can only post content on x that has first been posted on a properly moderated social media site.
- throwaw12 3y ago"among others, concerned the dissemination of illegal content in the context of Hamas' terrorist attacks against Israel, the Commission has decided to open formal infringement proceedings against X under the Digital Services Act." Why not open a case against Israel and some of the citizens for spreading a misinformation about beheaded babies and some other lies?
- throwaw12 3y ago"news" means something "new is happening", how do you know if it is a disinformation or right when it just came up? Should we blindly trust and consume news from mass media propaganda machines like CNN, Fox news, BBC and etc?