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> French people always get criticized for not understanding foreigners' broken French The main criticism I've heard is kind of the opposite - that they dislike

> French people always get criticized for not understanding foreigners' broken French The main criticism I've heard is kind of the opposite - that they dislike foreigners not trying to speak French, and just starting communication in English. If both of these are true then I guess that puts foreigners in a tough place where they're damned if they try and damned if they don't?

Swizec 3y ago
I’ve had extraordinary luck with broken French in France. If you start in French and do your best, a lot of people suddenly speak fluent English. Especially in metro areas. But the experience does not compare to traveling with my partner who speaks fluent zero-accent French. Paris turns into a different much nicer city when you pair with a native speaker. That said, you’ll never get the level of service you see in USA. The French (Europe in general) just don’t care that much about customer UX. You either do it their way or you can leave.
- jimmaswell 3y ago
  Europe as a whole has always come off as unpleasant to visit as an American, from what I've read online such as this thread. In no American city I've been to do you have to be so vigilant for pickpockets as you apparently do in European cities, and virtually no one in America will complain about your accent or grammar. We have free water at restaurants, and the staff won't treat you like a mooch for asking about it; in fact most staff of any business will make at least a basic attempt to be pleasant towards you. You get your money's worth in food portions at restaurants, the taxes are cheaper, you won't be arrested and fined for making a rude tweet.. why exactly would I want to visit Europe?
  - qwytw 3y ago
    > why exactly would I want to visit Europe? To see stuff? US doesen't really have that have much besides nature worth seeing/experiencing from a traditional tourist perspective. Almost all the cities besides a handful are extremely boring in comparison (and in those worth visiting like SF you're very likely to get stabbed by a drug addict or even shot)*. To be honest besides not having free water in restaurants (if I have to ask it's already not free (emotionally)) none of those other things you've mentioned seem like a big deal for me. > vigilant for pickpockets In some places? Sure. But IMHO even in notorious cities like Barcelona it's not really that bad. * well that's certainly not true.. but if you base your opinion on what some Europeans might be saying on Reddit/etc. you might end up believing stuff like this.
  - manmal 3y ago
    I live in Europe and have never been stolen from, and I‘ve been on plenty vacations abroad. And in many places you do get free tap water (eg London or Vienna) with food. IDK why you would care about the price of tap water though since that’s probably 0,1% of your traveling budget for a city trip. Taxes are country specific, you‘ll find some EU countries with lower taxation than your average US state, eg Bulgaria. Being rude on Twitter won’t land you in jail, please. > why exactly would I want to visit Europe? Business, sightseeing, and cheap dentistry.
    - qwytw 3y ago
      > why you would care about the price of tap water Because I have to ask and unless I'm explicit they'll bring a 330 mL glass bottle which is extremely annoying. That forces me to drink beer all the time just to avoid that which is not exactly ideal. > eg Bulgaria The VAT there is 20% which is much higher than any place in the US.
      - fknorangesite 3y ago
        > That forces me to drink beer all the time My opinion of American tourists is such that I can't tell if this is a joke, and I'm Canadian, ffs.
        qwytw 3y ago
        Well.. I'm European, it's only half a joke though.
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
        Beldin 3y ago
        Maybe the three of you should go to a bar and get this joke over with.
      - manmal 3y ago
        Oh I thought we were talking income tax. VAT rates are not a concern if prices are generally low, like in Bulgaria. Drinking beer so you don’t need to drink water from a bottle - well ok, you do you.
  - Swizec 3y ago
    > why exactly would I want to visit Europe? That’s okay, we don’t want you. I lived the first 28 years of my life in the downtown historic area of an increasingly touristy European capital and American tourists were always the worst :) The Chinese tourists can be frustrating because they travel in tight packs and take up a lot of room, but at least they understand they’re not visiting an amusement park and are not the center of the world. My favorite were always fellow European high school and college kids traveling in small groups. You’d never even realize they were tourists if not for the oversized backpacks. They just blend in, aren’t loud, respect the locals, and seek authentic experiences.
    - bubblematrix 3y ago
      This makes zero sense.
  - agubelu 3y ago
    It's a matter of cultural differences and expectations. Only American cities are like American cities. If you travel anywhere else expecting everything to be just like America you'll be hugely dissapointed.
    - bubblematrix 3y ago
      This doesn't make sense.
  - Daishiman 3y ago
    I'm sorry but the staff at American restaurants is extremely overbearing and come across as endlessly annoying. I can ask for water or extra dishes if I need them. The necessity for tips is visible from a mile away.
    - Auracle 3y ago
      When visiting Europe I've literally had to get up and find my waitress after not seeing her for 40+ minutes. I'll take tip culture any day...in sit down restaurants, at least.
      - bubblematrix 3y ago
        Same, in Paris we've encountered the same hour-long "where's the waiter"
  - coldtea 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - ch4s3 3y ago
      This trope about the risk of being shot by police in the US is kind of dumb. Yes police shoot about 1,000 people here a year, but on average only 50 are unarmed. And among those where data is available the number where the unarmed person wasn’t attacking the officer with their bare hands boils down to basically the cases you’ve seen in the news. I can think of exactly 2 foreign nationals who have been shot while unarmed by US police. We have some real problems with policing here, but as a foreign tourist you’re more likely to die in a plane crash getting here than to be shot by the police.
      - Symbiote 3y ago
        The point being made was that worrying about going to jail for a tweet in Europe, or being pocketed, is dumb.
        ch4s3 3y ago
        I don't think it was a good way to make the point though. And at least in the UK, they arrested, prosecuted, and convicted 567 people in 2017-2018 alone for violations of the Communications Act of 2003[1]. The convictions mostly seem to be for Tweets and Facebook messages. [1] https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/21/section/127 https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/21/section/127
      - coldtea 3y ago
        >This trope about the risk of being shot by police in the US is kind of dumb. Yes police shoot about 1,000 people here a year, but on average only 50 are unarmed. This makes it even worse... Since those armed people can also shoot you. In constrast the German police kills about 10 people a year, which given the population would amount to the US police killing 45 people total (so 5% that of the US). France, the worst example, the analogy would amount to about 250 per year (so 25% that of the US). For homicides, Germany had 260 in 2026. That would amount to 1135 projected to the US population difference. France (again a worst case) has 734 per year. In US terms that would be equal to the US having 3772 per year. Adjusted for population, the US has around 5x the number of France and 16x the number of homicides Germany has. Other western european countries are much lower.
  - sjfjsjdjwvwvc 3y ago
    You have been piled on a lot already in this thread but let me add my 2 cents: - you don’t have to be particularly careful about pickpockets anywhere in Europe, at least not more than anywhere else in the world. - you always get free tapwater in restaurants if you ask for it anywhere in Europe, also most waiters are also generally pleasant (of course there can be unpleasant people anywhere) - not sure about the tax thing (why would you care about that as visitor anyway?) - atleast we have free healthcare and free university shrug - haven’t heard from anyone that got arrested for a „rude“ tweet lolwhat You don’t have to visit of course but it would surely expand your horizon. When I visited the US for the first time I realised that most of the prejudices against Americans weren’t true (that most Americans are fat, stupid and greedy for example - sure a lot of them are but not the majority)
    - alternative_a 3y ago
      This is all true. You also can ask for ice with your coke. This will endear you with the wait staff as they can not resist snickering and muttering “American ..”
      - sjfjsjdjwvwvc 3y ago
        In the US I always had to specifically ask to not have ice in my drinks. That was one thing I could never wrap my head around. The other thing was the extreme use of AC. I can understand AC to an extent, but they were making it so cold I had to bring extra clothes just to go in the supermarket for example - what the heck?!
      - pezezin 3y ago
        That depends on the country. In Spain ice with your soft drinks is the default, even in winter.
        alternative_a 3y ago
        Yes, this was France.
    - 3y ago
  - csomar 3y ago
    Have you actually been to Europe? Paris/London has a few pickpockets problem but nothing come close to the violence in the states. And you can’t win when it comes to food. Most US food is garbage unless you are paying top dollars.
    - bubblematrix 3y ago
      My last trip to Paris was 1 year ago and it was pretty bad compared to NYC, Los Angeles, and San Francisco for the average tourist - especially at night.
      - alternative_a 3y ago
        As an almost life long New Yorker it pains me, truly, to read this. People used to fear this city and that kept the “average tourist” (which includes super lovely people like my parents btw) well away from the Big Apple. Oh how I miss those days. Now any average tourist feels perfectly safe in our city and no longer fears us locals. This is not good. It’s almost like being colonized, like what happened to those poor poor Barceloni. One day they had a beautiful city (though it did smell like dog shit everywhere) and before you know it they lost it to the tourists. I fear this has already happened to Manhattan, though over here in Brooklyn we do our bit to instill the necessary respect for locals and their customs for the tourists. (Yes they come over here and look at graffiti on the wall to the great amusement of us locals.)
      - sofixa 3y ago
        I live in the Paris area (initially came as a tourist) and I've visited San Francisco. It's all a matter of where exactly you are - there are bad parts and good parts. However, the worst parts of San Francisco were definitely worse than the worst parts of Paris (where no tourist has any reason to come close to, unlike in SF where it's literally a few blocks away from major tourist attractions). You don't see people shooting heroin literally 5 metres away from a tourist attraction in Paris (for the record - right next to the queue of tourists to get on the cable car at Powell/Market stop).
  - flappyeagle 3y ago
    Because it’s better in every way you didnt list. Have you never been to a European capital? The quality of life enjoyed there is amazing.
    - achenet 3y ago
      not always. From personal experience, most large French cities (Toulouse, Lyon...) have higher QoL than Paris, for much lower prices. Would not be surprised if this is also true for London/rest of UK, perhaps other countries as well. Had a friend say the same was similar for Amsterdam vs other cities (eg Eindhoven) in the Netherlands Even in the US, it's probably easier to have a nice life on a reasonable budget in someplace like Denver or St Louis than in NYC or Washington DC. Capitals tend to expensive, crowded and loud.
  - DeathArrow 3y ago
    Nobody forces you to visit Europe. I don't want to visit USA, so I don't go there to complain about what I dislike.
  - achenet 3y ago
    > virtually no one in America will complain about your accent or grammar. I grew up in Houston. I've heard enough rich Texans bitching about Mexicans not speaking English to disagree with that statement.
- nicoburns 3y ago
  > The French (Europe in general) just don’t care that much about customer UX. You either do it their way or you can leave. I think Europe partly just has different preferences around service. We tend to find American servers annoyingly fake, and to be constantly needlessly interrupting us to ask if we need anything. And of course, one should also take into account the experience of being a server.
  - com 3y ago
    Having had a date night in Manhattan in a fairly expensive and good restaurant, some time during the first few courses, we had to have a few words with the maître d’ - just to get the wait staff to stop bugging us if we wanted ketchup or whatever - and to observe the language of cutlery as to when we were finished a course. Once explained how we’d like it, we got top-notch European style discreet service and a far less interrupted conversation. A gentle twist of the head got the wine waiter refilling our glasses rather than butting in. It’s possible!
    - apigalore 3y ago
      omg yes is "language of cutlery" not a thing in US?
  - aden1ne 3y ago
    As an example of this: Americans tend to expect plates being picked up as soon as one is finished eating, even when others on the same table are not finished yet. In my native Netherlands this would be considered (very) rude, with plates only removed after everyone is finished and then some grace period. Picking up plates early here indicates the restaurant wants you out the door quickly.
  - kubanczyk 3y ago
    > annoyingly fake a small correction here: ANNOYINGLY FAKE
- Naijoko 3y ago
  hahaha .. I have to lough hard. That is so True. Many people in paris speak english but the only way to get them to speak it is by speaking bad french. And they hate you for that.
- kergonath 3y ago
  > That said, you’ll never get the level of service you see in USA. The French (Europe in general) just don’t care that much about customer UX. You either do it their way or you can leave. I hate service in American restaurants. I don’t want to be babysit and have someone always behind me. I can fill my glass myself just fine, and I am able to call if I need something. I just want to be left alone to enjoy the meal and company without being watched. That said, Paris tends to be a caricature of a different kind, sure.
  - JodieBenitez 3y ago
    The tipping culture sure made some nights unpleasant when I traveled.
wahnfrieden 3y ago
locals are not obligated to please illiterate tourists however the trick is simply to learn enough that you can politely ask if it's alright to use english with them
- dataflow 3y ago
  To be clear, I wasn't suggesting locals are obligated to do anything. I'm just pointing out tourists seem to have difficulty in more than one direction.
- febusravenga 3y ago
  Jeez, aren't you seeing what everyone writes here? Learning is not being "illiterate". It means trying to become literate and shows intention. Being impolite in response to use of such non-perfect use of language is rude at least and that's what everyone says here. ... and my anectodital experience: My wife was learning French for 4+ years, probably in not hightest quality high school in Poland - no good practice unfortunately, but good intentions. Exhibit 1. Husband of my sister in law when She tried to be polite and start friendly chat "her-broken-French". Response: don't talk to me, better switch to English ... (this guy is authistic anyway, so let's drop this sample) Exhibit 2 Month in France travelling by train. It was much more easier for me to find someone speaking English (my English wasn't good back then too), than for her to find someone to speak with her French. I mean typical dialogs: train station, tickets, tourist info or grocery. She gave up after week and we switched to me managing dialogs with French people in English. Yes, her French was probably not too good or even bad, but how for Christs sake was she supposed to improve it? I guess practice is agreed to be best way to do it?
frenchie123 3y ago
When I was a little kid my school took me on a trip to paris. I got lost and tried to ask for directions. The locals literally ignored me as I was begging for help. Until I finally remembered my parents talking about how the french hate anyone who doesn't speak their language and I started my plea with "I'm sorry I don't speak your beautiful language" So yeah, they'd rather ignore a lost child than tolerate foreigners not knowing their "beautiful" language.
- esperent 3y ago
  To be fair, this is Paris and should not be generalized to all of France. Paris is not a friendly city.
  - eloisant 3y ago
    Yes Parisians are dicks to other French people too - including Parisians. It's not about Parisians ignoring foreigners because they don't speak the language, it's about Parisians ignoring people.
    - achenet 3y ago
      ex-Parisian here (or perhaps Parisian in exile, I'll always be Parisian in my heart, but I refuse to live in the city while it's under the tyrannical mismanagement of Anne Hidalgo) We're nice to each other. The local social codes are perhaps not as obvious to visitors, but if you put some effort into befriending the city, Paris can be very kind. Agree with the whole "Parisians ignoring people" thing though. If you're running late for an appointment and you see hundreds of thousands of people per day, you don't really differentiate between a lost tourist and yet another bum asking for spare change to buy beer and drugs with.
      - frenchie123 3y ago
        [flagged]
      - frenchie123 3y ago
kergonath 3y ago
> The main criticism I've heard is kind of the opposite - that they dislike foreigners not trying to speak French, and just starting communication in English. That’s the case most often, and that’s what most of my friends who lived in Paris say. There’s a (not entirely justified) pervasive feeling that French people can’t speak English properly and they tend to be self-conscious about it. > If both of these are true then I guess that puts foreigners in a tough place where they're damned if they try and damned if they don't? It’s different people. Most of them are forgiving, if clumsy, and a few of them are pricks. Just like in any country. A fair few don’t care and you can live perfectly well near Paris for years speaking only a handful of French words.
eloisant 3y ago
This is true in every touristic place, not just in France. Many people will get annoyed by tourists who don't even try to say "hello" or "thank you" in the country they're visiting. And they don't even make a majority but you'll more easily remember the one bad experience you had than all the good one. However I don't think that it's common for French people to critized foreigner's French. On the contrary, they're very supportive of people trying to speak their language. I'm sure you can find some people who would critize foreigners' bad French but probably not more than any other country.

Swizec 3y ago

I’ve had extraordinary luck with broken French in France. If you start in French and do your best, a lot of people suddenly speak fluent English. Especially in metro areas. But the experience does not compare to traveling with my partner who speaks fluent zero-accent French. Paris turns into a different much nicer city when you pair with a native speaker. That said, you’ll never get the level of service you see in USA. The French (Europe in general) just don’t care that much about customer UX. You either do it their way or you can leave.

jimmaswell 3y ago
Europe as a whole has always come off as unpleasant to visit as an American, from what I've read online such as this thread. In no American city I've been to do you have to be so vigilant for pickpockets as you apparently do in European cities, and virtually no one in America will complain about your accent or grammar. We have free water at restaurants, and the staff won't treat you like a mooch for asking about it; in fact most staff of any business will make at least a basic attempt to be pleasant towards you. You get your money's worth in food portions at restaurants, the taxes are cheaper, you won't be arrested and fined for making a rude tweet.. why exactly would I want to visit Europe?
- qwytw 3y ago
  > why exactly would I want to visit Europe? To see stuff? US doesen't really have that have much besides nature worth seeing/experiencing from a traditional tourist perspective. Almost all the cities besides a handful are extremely boring in comparison (and in those worth visiting like SF you're very likely to get stabbed by a drug addict or even shot)*. To be honest besides not having free water in restaurants (if I have to ask it's already not free (emotionally)) none of those other things you've mentioned seem like a big deal for me. > vigilant for pickpockets In some places? Sure. But IMHO even in notorious cities like Barcelona it's not really that bad. * well that's certainly not true.. but if you base your opinion on what some Europeans might be saying on Reddit/etc. you might end up believing stuff like this.
- manmal 3y ago
  I live in Europe and have never been stolen from, and I‘ve been on plenty vacations abroad. And in many places you do get free tap water (eg London or Vienna) with food. IDK why you would care about the price of tap water though since that’s probably 0,1% of your traveling budget for a city trip. Taxes are country specific, you‘ll find some EU countries with lower taxation than your average US state, eg Bulgaria. Being rude on Twitter won’t land you in jail, please. > why exactly would I want to visit Europe? Business, sightseeing, and cheap dentistry.
  - qwytw 3y ago
    > why you would care about the price of tap water Because I have to ask and unless I'm explicit they'll bring a 330 mL glass bottle which is extremely annoying. That forces me to drink beer all the time just to avoid that which is not exactly ideal. > eg Bulgaria The VAT there is 20% which is much higher than any place in the US.
    - fknorangesite 3y ago
      > That forces me to drink beer all the time My opinion of American tourists is such that I can't tell if this is a joke, and I'm Canadian, ffs.
      - qwytw 3y ago
        Well.. I'm European, it's only half a joke though.
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
        Beldin 3y ago
        Maybe the three of you should go to a bar and get this joke over with.
    - manmal 3y ago
      Oh I thought we were talking income tax. VAT rates are not a concern if prices are generally low, like in Bulgaria. Drinking beer so you don’t need to drink water from a bottle - well ok, you do you.
- Swizec 3y ago
  > why exactly would I want to visit Europe? That’s okay, we don’t want you. I lived the first 28 years of my life in the downtown historic area of an increasingly touristy European capital and American tourists were always the worst :) The Chinese tourists can be frustrating because they travel in tight packs and take up a lot of room, but at least they understand they’re not visiting an amusement park and are not the center of the world. My favorite were always fellow European high school and college kids traveling in small groups. You’d never even realize they were tourists if not for the oversized backpacks. They just blend in, aren’t loud, respect the locals, and seek authentic experiences.
  - bubblematrix 3y ago
    This makes zero sense.
- agubelu 3y ago
  It's a matter of cultural differences and expectations. Only American cities are like American cities. If you travel anywhere else expecting everything to be just like America you'll be hugely dissapointed.
  - bubblematrix 3y ago
    This doesn't make sense.
- Daishiman 3y ago
  I'm sorry but the staff at American restaurants is extremely overbearing and come across as endlessly annoying. I can ask for water or extra dishes if I need them. The necessity for tips is visible from a mile away.
  - Auracle 3y ago
    When visiting Europe I've literally had to get up and find my waitress after not seeing her for 40+ minutes. I'll take tip culture any day...in sit down restaurants, at least.
    - bubblematrix 3y ago
      Same, in Paris we've encountered the same hour-long "where's the waiter"
- coldtea 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - ch4s3 3y ago
    This trope about the risk of being shot by police in the US is kind of dumb. Yes police shoot about 1,000 people here a year, but on average only 50 are unarmed. And among those where data is available the number where the unarmed person wasn’t attacking the officer with their bare hands boils down to basically the cases you’ve seen in the news. I can think of exactly 2 foreign nationals who have been shot while unarmed by US police. We have some real problems with policing here, but as a foreign tourist you’re more likely to die in a plane crash getting here than to be shot by the police.
    - Symbiote 3y ago
      The point being made was that worrying about going to jail for a tweet in Europe, or being pocketed, is dumb.
      - ch4s3 3y ago
        I don't think it was a good way to make the point though. And at least in the UK, they arrested, prosecuted, and convicted 567 people in 2017-2018 alone for violations of the Communications Act of 2003[1]. The convictions mostly seem to be for Tweets and Facebook messages. [1] https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/21/section/127 https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/21/section/127
    - coldtea 3y ago
      >This trope about the risk of being shot by police in the US is kind of dumb. Yes police shoot about 1,000 people here a year, but on average only 50 are unarmed. This makes it even worse... Since those armed people can also shoot you. In constrast the German police kills about 10 people a year, which given the population would amount to the US police killing 45 people total (so 5% that of the US). France, the worst example, the analogy would amount to about 250 per year (so 25% that of the US). For homicides, Germany had 260 in 2026. That would amount to 1135 projected to the US population difference. France (again a worst case) has 734 per year. In US terms that would be equal to the US having 3772 per year. Adjusted for population, the US has around 5x the number of France and 16x the number of homicides Germany has. Other western european countries are much lower.
- sjfjsjdjwvwvc 3y ago
  You have been piled on a lot already in this thread but let me add my 2 cents: - you don’t have to be particularly careful about pickpockets anywhere in Europe, at least not more than anywhere else in the world. - you always get free tapwater in restaurants if you ask for it anywhere in Europe, also most waiters are also generally pleasant (of course there can be unpleasant people anywhere) - not sure about the tax thing (why would you care about that as visitor anyway?) - atleast we have free healthcare and free university shrug - haven’t heard from anyone that got arrested for a „rude“ tweet lolwhat You don’t have to visit of course but it would surely expand your horizon. When I visited the US for the first time I realised that most of the prejudices against Americans weren’t true (that most Americans are fat, stupid and greedy for example - sure a lot of them are but not the majority)
  - alternative_a 3y ago
    This is all true. You also can ask for ice with your coke. This will endear you with the wait staff as they can not resist snickering and muttering “American ..”
    - sjfjsjdjwvwvc 3y ago
      In the US I always had to specifically ask to not have ice in my drinks. That was one thing I could never wrap my head around. The other thing was the extreme use of AC. I can understand AC to an extent, but they were making it so cold I had to bring extra clothes just to go in the supermarket for example - what the heck?!
    - pezezin 3y ago
      That depends on the country. In Spain ice with your soft drinks is the default, even in winter.
      - alternative_a 3y ago
        Yes, this was France.
  - 3y ago
- csomar 3y ago
  Have you actually been to Europe? Paris/London has a few pickpockets problem but nothing come close to the violence in the states. And you can’t win when it comes to food. Most US food is garbage unless you are paying top dollars.
  - bubblematrix 3y ago
    My last trip to Paris was 1 year ago and it was pretty bad compared to NYC, Los Angeles, and San Francisco for the average tourist - especially at night.
    - alternative_a 3y ago
      As an almost life long New Yorker it pains me, truly, to read this. People used to fear this city and that kept the “average tourist” (which includes super lovely people like my parents btw) well away from the Big Apple. Oh how I miss those days. Now any average tourist feels perfectly safe in our city and no longer fears us locals. This is not good. It’s almost like being colonized, like what happened to those poor poor Barceloni. One day they had a beautiful city (though it did smell like dog shit everywhere) and before you know it they lost it to the tourists. I fear this has already happened to Manhattan, though over here in Brooklyn we do our bit to instill the necessary respect for locals and their customs for the tourists. (Yes they come over here and look at graffiti on the wall to the great amusement of us locals.)
    - sofixa 3y ago
      I live in the Paris area (initially came as a tourist) and I've visited San Francisco. It's all a matter of where exactly you are - there are bad parts and good parts. However, the worst parts of San Francisco were definitely worse than the worst parts of Paris (where no tourist has any reason to come close to, unlike in SF where it's literally a few blocks away from major tourist attractions). You don't see people shooting heroin literally 5 metres away from a tourist attraction in Paris (for the record - right next to the queue of tourists to get on the cable car at Powell/Market stop).
- flappyeagle 3y ago
  Because it’s better in every way you didnt list. Have you never been to a European capital? The quality of life enjoyed there is amazing.
  - achenet 3y ago
    not always. From personal experience, most large French cities (Toulouse, Lyon...) have higher QoL than Paris, for much lower prices. Would not be surprised if this is also true for London/rest of UK, perhaps other countries as well. Had a friend say the same was similar for Amsterdam vs other cities (eg Eindhoven) in the Netherlands Even in the US, it's probably easier to have a nice life on a reasonable budget in someplace like Denver or St Louis than in NYC or Washington DC. Capitals tend to expensive, crowded and loud.
- DeathArrow 3y ago
  Nobody forces you to visit Europe. I don't want to visit USA, so I don't go there to complain about what I dislike.
- achenet 3y ago
  > virtually no one in America will complain about your accent or grammar. I grew up in Houston. I've heard enough rich Texans bitching about Mexicans not speaking English to disagree with that statement.
nicoburns 3y ago
> The French (Europe in general) just don’t care that much about customer UX. You either do it their way or you can leave. I think Europe partly just has different preferences around service. We tend to find American servers annoyingly fake, and to be constantly needlessly interrupting us to ask if we need anything. And of course, one should also take into account the experience of being a server.
- com 3y ago
  Having had a date night in Manhattan in a fairly expensive and good restaurant, some time during the first few courses, we had to have a few words with the maître d’ - just to get the wait staff to stop bugging us if we wanted ketchup or whatever - and to observe the language of cutlery as to when we were finished a course. Once explained how we’d like it, we got top-notch European style discreet service and a far less interrupted conversation. A gentle twist of the head got the wine waiter refilling our glasses rather than butting in. It’s possible!
  - apigalore 3y ago
    omg yes is "language of cutlery" not a thing in US?
- aden1ne 3y ago
  As an example of this: Americans tend to expect plates being picked up as soon as one is finished eating, even when others on the same table are not finished yet. In my native Netherlands this would be considered (very) rude, with plates only removed after everyone is finished and then some grace period. Picking up plates early here indicates the restaurant wants you out the door quickly.
- kubanczyk 3y ago
  > annoyingly fake a small correction here: ANNOYINGLY FAKE
Naijoko 3y ago
hahaha .. I have to lough hard. That is so True. Many people in paris speak english but the only way to get them to speak it is by speaking bad french. And they hate you for that.
kergonath 3y ago
> That said, you’ll never get the level of service you see in USA. The French (Europe in general) just don’t care that much about customer UX. You either do it their way or you can leave. I hate service in American restaurants. I don’t want to be babysit and have someone always behind me. I can fill my glass myself just fine, and I am able to call if I need something. I just want to be left alone to enjoy the meal and company without being watched. That said, Paris tends to be a caricature of a different kind, sure.
- JodieBenitez 3y ago
  The tipping culture sure made some nights unpleasant when I traveled.

wahnfrieden 3y ago

locals are not obligated to please illiterate tourists however the trick is simply to learn enough that you can politely ask if it's alright to use english with them

dataflow 3y ago
To be clear, I wasn't suggesting locals are obligated to do anything. I'm just pointing out tourists seem to have difficulty in more than one direction.
febusravenga 3y ago
Jeez, aren't you seeing what everyone writes here? Learning is not being "illiterate". It means trying to become literate and shows intention. Being impolite in response to use of such non-perfect use of language is rude at least and that's what everyone says here. ... and my anectodital experience: My wife was learning French for 4+ years, probably in not hightest quality high school in Poland - no good practice unfortunately, but good intentions. Exhibit 1. Husband of my sister in law when She tried to be polite and start friendly chat "her-broken-French". Response: don't talk to me, better switch to English ... (this guy is authistic anyway, so let's drop this sample) Exhibit 2 Month in France travelling by train. It was much more easier for me to find someone speaking English (my English wasn't good back then too), than for her to find someone to speak with her French. I mean typical dialogs: train station, tickets, tourist info or grocery. She gave up after week and we switched to me managing dialogs with French people in English. Yes, her French was probably not too good or even bad, but how for Christs sake was she supposed to improve it? I guess practice is agreed to be best way to do it?

frenchie123 3y ago

When I was a little kid my school took me on a trip to paris. I got lost and tried to ask for directions. The locals literally ignored me as I was begging for help. Until I finally remembered my parents talking about how the french hate anyone who doesn't speak their language and I started my plea with "I'm sorry I don't speak your beautiful language" So yeah, they'd rather ignore a lost child than tolerate foreigners not knowing their "beautiful" language.

esperent 3y ago
To be fair, this is Paris and should not be generalized to all of France. Paris is not a friendly city.
- eloisant 3y ago
  Yes Parisians are dicks to other French people too - including Parisians. It's not about Parisians ignoring foreigners because they don't speak the language, it's about Parisians ignoring people.
  - achenet 3y ago
    ex-Parisian here (or perhaps Parisian in exile, I'll always be Parisian in my heart, but I refuse to live in the city while it's under the tyrannical mismanagement of Anne Hidalgo) We're nice to each other. The local social codes are perhaps not as obvious to visitors, but if you put some effort into befriending the city, Paris can be very kind. Agree with the whole "Parisians ignoring people" thing though. If you're running late for an appointment and you see hundreds of thousands of people per day, you don't really differentiate between a lost tourist and yet another bum asking for spare change to buy beer and drugs with.
    - frenchie123 3y ago
      [flagged]
    - frenchie123 3y ago

kergonath 3y ago

> The main criticism I've heard is kind of the opposite - that they dislike foreigners not trying to speak French, and just starting communication in English. That’s the case most often, and that’s what most of my friends who lived in Paris say. There’s a (not entirely justified) pervasive feeling that French people can’t speak English properly and they tend to be self-conscious about it. > If both of these are true then I guess that puts foreigners in a tough place where they're damned if they try and damned if they don't? It’s different people. Most of them are forgiving, if clumsy, and a few of them are pricks. Just like in any country. A fair few don’t care and you can live perfectly well near Paris for years speaking only a handful of French words.

eloisant 3y ago

This is true in every touristic place, not just in France. Many people will get annoyed by tourists who don't even try to say "hello" or "thank you" in the country they're visiting. And they don't even make a majority but you'll more easily remember the one bad experience you had than all the good one. However I don't think that it's common for French people to critized foreigner's French. On the contrary, they're very supportive of people trying to speak their language. I'm sure you can find some people who would critize foreigners' bad French but probably not more than any other country.