5 ms·

Can you elaborate on what is lost? What is the difference in perspective?

by ttymck 3y ago

DaveSchmindel 3y ago
I can, from the other side of life. I was raised in middle-class suburbia, in the North East U.S. My family wasn't wealthy, but wasn't hurting either. I did well in school, but didn't have to try very hard to maintain grades in Advanced Placement classes. Outside of school, I worked easy lawn-care gigs with my neighbor and we made decent cash with 20-30 hours of work per week. It afforded me a life of coasting, leisure, and throwing away my downtime. I am nearing 30 years old and just realizing that I'd consider my behavior to be bad habits I need to kick. I want to work harder, and I have to teach myself what that means.
- mcculley 3y ago
  I would hope that there is some optimal balance. A lot of my childhood was spent doing manual labor for money. A lot of that was wasted opportunity to learn more and get experience that would have benefited me financially later on.
ronnier 3y ago
What was lost was hard work ethic and the perspective of how good life is now, respect for others, and we've gained some arrogance from never having to suffer. I had an odd life, I lived in the projects as a child until I was sent to my grandfathers farm for 6~ years, and after that, back to the violent city I had originally lived in. I was at a huge disadvantage compared to my peers but from the hard word I was subjected to in those 6 years (work ethic it taught me), pure luck of getting into computer science (thanks to John Carmack via doom/quake), and meeting the right people, I was able to work much harder than those around me and rise up quickly through the worlds biggest tech companies, make a ton of money to the point where I was able to retire at 40 (though I didn't and still work). To answer your question, in my view, that's what was lost -- a connection to brutal hard work that keeps the world moving forward.
- jdewerd 3y ago
  My parents infected me with the same disease -- an intense conviction in the nobility and virtue of individual hard work -- and it led me to a terrible place, the physical sciences, where I received a harsh lesson in the nature of capitalism. It's not about creating value, it's about capturing value. In a low-leverage situation, when everyone works hard you are simply paid less. Surplus is captured through ownership and ownership is concentrated at the top. In low-leverage jobs, this system transforms hard work from a noble individual value to a collective curse. The explosive growth of the software industry over the last few decades has led to an abnormal situation where regular employees have enough leverage to capture a substantial fraction of their surplus. Most people are not so lucky. For most people, the system looks more like: You load sixteen tons, what do you get? Another day older and deeper in debt Saint Peter don't you call me, 'cause I can't go I owe my soul to the company store and having experienced work environments that were low leverage through no fault of the employees, I understand this, I respect this, and I did not forget it when I left for software, where we have it much easier not because we work harder but because we are in a growth industry. I too found it easy to climb. I too enjoy the "free" money from real estate investments and a stock portfolio. But I know where it comes from. I do not pound my throne and launch spittle as I demand for those beneath me to work harder for my benefit. You shouldn't either.
  - diob 3y ago
    Thank god, I'm also well off and work hard. But I know plenty who work hard and aren't. Luck is a big factor.
    - WalterBright 3y ago
      Working at creating value is what matters, not just working hard.
      - TedDoesntTalk 3y ago
        Can you explain this? Value for whom? The business owner, the customer, yourself? Can you please give an example?

Can you elaborate on what is lost? What is the difference in perspective?

by ttymck 3y ago

Can you elaborate on what is lost? What is the difference in perspective?

I can, from the other side of life. I was raised in middle-class suburbia, in the North East U.S. My family wasn't wealthy, but wasn't hurting either. I did well in school, but didn't have to try very hard to maintain grades in Advanced Placement classes. Outside of school, I worked easy lawn-care gigs with my neighbor and we made decent cash with 20-30 hours of work per week. It afforded me a life of coasting, leisure, and throwing away my downtime. I am nearing 30 years old and just realizing that I'd consider my behavior to be bad habits I need to kick. I want to work harder, and I have to teach myself what that means.

mcculley 3y ago
I would hope that there is some optimal balance. A lot of my childhood was spent doing manual labor for money. A lot of that was wasted opportunity to learn more and get experience that would have benefited me financially later on.

ronnier 3y ago

What was lost was hard work ethic and the perspective of how good life is now, respect for others, and we've gained some arrogance from never having to suffer. I had an odd life, I lived in the projects as a child until I was sent to my grandfathers farm for 6~ years, and after that, back to the violent city I had originally lived in. I was at a huge disadvantage compared to my peers but from the hard word I was subjected to in those 6 years (work ethic it taught me), pure luck of getting into computer science (thanks to John Carmack via doom/quake), and meeting the right people, I was able to work much harder than those around me and rise up quickly through the worlds biggest tech companies, make a ton of money to the point where I was able to retire at 40 (though I didn't and still work). To answer your question, in my view, that's what was lost -- a connection to brutal hard work that keeps the world moving forward.

jdewerd 3y ago
My parents infected me with the same disease -- an intense conviction in the nobility and virtue of individual hard work -- and it led me to a terrible place, the physical sciences, where I received a harsh lesson in the nature of capitalism. It's not about creating value, it's about capturing value. In a low-leverage situation, when everyone works hard you are simply paid less. Surplus is captured through ownership and ownership is concentrated at the top. In low-leverage jobs, this system transforms hard work from a noble individual value to a collective curse. The explosive growth of the software industry over the last few decades has led to an abnormal situation where regular employees have enough leverage to capture a substantial fraction of their surplus. Most people are not so lucky. For most people, the system looks more like: You load sixteen tons, what do you get? Another day older and deeper in debt Saint Peter don't you call me, 'cause I can't go I owe my soul to the company store and having experienced work environments that were low leverage through no fault of the employees, I understand this, I respect this, and I did not forget it when I left for software, where we have it much easier not because we work harder but because we are in a growth industry. I too found it easy to climb. I too enjoy the "free" money from real estate investments and a stock portfolio. But I know where it comes from. I do not pound my throne and launch spittle as I demand for those beneath me to work harder for my benefit. You shouldn't either.
- diob 3y ago
  Thank god, I'm also well off and work hard. But I know plenty who work hard and aren't. Luck is a big factor.
  - WalterBright 3y ago
    Working at creating value is what matters, not just working hard.
    - TedDoesntTalk 3y ago
      Can you explain this? Value for whom? The business owner, the customer, yourself? Can you please give an example?