7 ms·

The X Files – how Elon Musk's new rules allow hate to flourish

33 points by mindracer 3y ago

infotainment 3y ago
Regardless of their rule changes, it’s not like they enforce any of them (or even have the capability to, given the staffing cuts)
- sidibe 3y ago
  Yeah still haven't seen anyone get banned for the two words he has said will get you suspended: c*s and dec*lonization
asguy 3y ago
X is a better experience for me now, than it was before Elon's takeover. If I don't want to see something, I don't look at. If I don't want to allow someone to interact with me, I block them. If I believe something is bullshit/a lie, I participate in the community notes. I don't need a nanny to pre-chew my information for me.
hereme888 3y ago
[flagged]
- simonw 3y ago
  My impression is that the interest Twitter is paying on the billions in loans Elon took out to buy it completely eclipses their revenue. (The revenue story isn't helped by the fact that Elon literally told his advertisers to GFY.)
  - hereme888 3y ago
    I may be wrong on the finances then, as I had read on how Twitter was sinking in debt and Elon didn't know how bad it was, hence the firing. I thought most of the money came as investments from companies/people. Re: GFY: I think it will play out well in the long term, because he verbalized people's real sentiments, and companies will advertise where people are/browse. Twitter's organic traffic is now off the charts afaik.
    - Topfi 3y ago
      > how Twitter was sinking in debt and Elon didn't know how bad it was Twitter was a public company back then, meaning their finances (till the company was taken private) were publicly disclosed. That information was accessible to Elon Musk, anyone working for him, and even regular investors such as myself.
    - rsynnott 3y ago
      > I may be wrong on the finances then, as I had read on how Twitter was sinking in debt and Elon didn't know how bad it was, hence the firing. I thought most of the money came as investments from companies/people. Where on earth did you read that? Like, I mean, (a) it’s not correct (it has a lot of debt now due to debt taken out as part of the leveraged buyout, but it didn’t before) and (b) it _could not be correct_; Twitter was a public company! Musk absolutely knew its financial situation before the takeover, or at least had no excuse for not knowing it. Anyone could just look that up; it’s part and parcel of being a public company. Is there some sort of Musk fanfiction financial news website that publishes this stuff or something? Anyway, wherever you read that, I would be _extremely_ sceptical of anything else it writes, if I were you.
kazinator 3y ago
I don't think you need leaked documents to put this together. The story doesn't inform about anything really. Musk was clear from the beginning but how he wants Twitter to be different. It was obvious that it would have to involve reduction or elimination of moderation powers and that as a result certain accounts would not be deleted out otherwise would be. In fact he reinstated certain accounts that had been banned.
RecycledEle 3y ago
FYI, "hate" means anything the author of the article disagrees with. Before Elon Musk took over Twitter, the anti-white bias was well documented. If you posted "I hate white people," that was OK. If you posted "I hate black people," that violated the rules. Now the rules are less biased, though there is still an anti-white-straight-Christian-conservative-male bias.
- analognoise 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - asguy 3y ago
    This is exactly the problem. Have /you/ contemplated what would happen if you applied that reasoning to any other group (e.g. Jews, Blacks, Oracle employees)?
    - analognoise 3y ago
      Anybody who derives their identity from their nomenclature quadruple of skin-color-religion-politics-sex sucks. Don’t have a problem with white people, Christians, conservatives (the old kind who put America first and didn’t want to reduce the rights of others) and men. Combine all those? Clearly a stunted individual that’s deeply disliked and they know it. Like what kind of man is so lacking in self-assured manliness that they need to include "male" in their identifier? What type of Christian needs to shout loudly near the temple about their faith? Etc. Have you ever met anybody reasonable who described themselves as a name quad that includes their skin color, sex, politics and religion? I haven’t. I keep trying to come up with a name quad that wouldn't sound super annoying in a hypothetical Twitter bio and I can't find a single combination that doesn't sound like a crazy person.
  - thfuran 3y ago
    If you feel justified in actively disliking all members of a particular demographic group because of the beliefs or actions of other members of the demographic, you're either racist or, if that demographic happens not to align with race, merely morally equivalent.
TheAceOfHearts 3y ago
Good for Elon, at least he has the courage to stand by his beliefs and ideals enough to actually try allowing as much free speech as possible. We'll see how well it works out long term. My personal experience with Twitter hasn't changed significantly since Elon took over. I think rather than having opaque moderation, Community Notes / Birdwatch does a much better job at calling out bad posts. Rather than trying to sweep bad content under the rug, we confront it and call out any inaccuracies. The real power of Community Notes is that anyone can get called out. Even Elon's own posts have gotten Community Notes a couple times.
- workingdog 3y ago
  The Community Notes are generally trustworthy. They've given me reasons to change my perceptions as I know they're not one-sided.
- pupppet 3y ago
  > The real power of Community Notes is that anyone can get called out. Even Elon's own posts have gotten Community Notes a couple times. And promptly pointed out how community notes are being gamed when this happens. Call me crazy but I don’t think the guy who routinely converses with Nazis will be applying his “free speech absolutist” ideals uniformly.
  - asguy 3y ago
    > the guy who routinely converses with Nazis Elon routinely converses with Nazis? Which ones?
- root_axis 3y ago
  > at least he has the courage to stand by his beliefs and ideals enough to actually try allowing as much free speech as possible. I see this sentiment a lot, but how do you reconcile that with his explicitly anti-free speech behavior. Censoring links for people he doesn't like https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33991136 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33991136 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35565359 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35565359 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34035149 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34035149 Censoring links to competitor websites https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35482222 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35482222 Banning ads that disagree with his personal politics https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36916334 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36916334 and many other examples.
skymast 3y ago
[dead]
s9w 3y ago
[dead]
smitty1e 3y ago
Hate exists in the heart, not the rules. Part of our analytic challenge is properly placing responsibility. Alas, their is much power to be gained in designating and nurturing grievances.
jmye 3y ago
Absolutely shocking advertisers are fleeing. Cue the whining from “free speech absolutists” who think free speech is them speaking and nothing more.
- hn1986 3y ago
  [flagged]
Always_Anon 3y ago
[flagged]
- Zigurd 3y ago
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  - deleted 3y ago
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  - deleted 3y ago
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  - deleted 3y ago
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  - Always_Anon 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - dang 3y ago
      We've banned this account for using HN primarily for ideological battle. That's not allowed here. Regardless of what you're battling for or against, it's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
      - Always_Anon 3y ago
        [dead]

33 points by mindracer 3y ago

Regardless of their rule changes, it’s not like they enforce any of them (or even have the capability to, given the staffing cuts)

sidibe 3y ago
Yeah still haven't seen anyone get banned for the two words he has said will get you suspended: c*s and dec*lonization

asguy 3y ago

X is a better experience for me now, than it was before Elon's takeover. If I don't want to see something, I don't look at. If I don't want to allow someone to interact with me, I block them. If I believe something is bullshit/a lie, I participate in the community notes. I don't need a nanny to pre-chew my information for me.

hereme888 3y ago

[flagged]

simonw 3y ago
My impression is that the interest Twitter is paying on the billions in loans Elon took out to buy it completely eclipses their revenue. (The revenue story isn't helped by the fact that Elon literally told his advertisers to GFY.)
- hereme888 3y ago
  I may be wrong on the finances then, as I had read on how Twitter was sinking in debt and Elon didn't know how bad it was, hence the firing. I thought most of the money came as investments from companies/people. Re: GFY: I think it will play out well in the long term, because he verbalized people's real sentiments, and companies will advertise where people are/browse. Twitter's organic traffic is now off the charts afaik.
  - Topfi 3y ago
    > how Twitter was sinking in debt and Elon didn't know how bad it was Twitter was a public company back then, meaning their finances (till the company was taken private) were publicly disclosed. That information was accessible to Elon Musk, anyone working for him, and even regular investors such as myself.
  - rsynnott 3y ago
    > I may be wrong on the finances then, as I had read on how Twitter was sinking in debt and Elon didn't know how bad it was, hence the firing. I thought most of the money came as investments from companies/people. Where on earth did you read that? Like, I mean, (a) it’s not correct (it has a lot of debt now due to debt taken out as part of the leveraged buyout, but it didn’t before) and (b) it _could not be correct_; Twitter was a public company! Musk absolutely knew its financial situation before the takeover, or at least had no excuse for not knowing it. Anyone could just look that up; it’s part and parcel of being a public company. Is there some sort of Musk fanfiction financial news website that publishes this stuff or something? Anyway, wherever you read that, I would be _extremely_ sceptical of anything else it writes, if I were you.

kazinator 3y ago

I don't think you need leaked documents to put this together. The story doesn't inform about anything really. Musk was clear from the beginning but how he wants Twitter to be different. It was obvious that it would have to involve reduction or elimination of moderation powers and that as a result certain accounts would not be deleted out otherwise would be. In fact he reinstated certain accounts that had been banned.

RecycledEle 3y ago

FYI, "hate" means anything the author of the article disagrees with. Before Elon Musk took over Twitter, the anti-white bias was well documented. If you posted "I hate white people," that was OK. If you posted "I hate black people," that violated the rules. Now the rules are less biased, though there is still an anti-white-straight-Christian-conservative-male bias.

analognoise 3y ago
[flagged]
- asguy 3y ago
  This is exactly the problem. Have /you/ contemplated what would happen if you applied that reasoning to any other group (e.g. Jews, Blacks, Oracle employees)?
  - analognoise 3y ago
    Anybody who derives their identity from their nomenclature quadruple of skin-color-religion-politics-sex sucks. Don’t have a problem with white people, Christians, conservatives (the old kind who put America first and didn’t want to reduce the rights of others) and men. Combine all those? Clearly a stunted individual that’s deeply disliked and they know it. Like what kind of man is so lacking in self-assured manliness that they need to include "male" in their identifier? What type of Christian needs to shout loudly near the temple about their faith? Etc. Have you ever met anybody reasonable who described themselves as a name quad that includes their skin color, sex, politics and religion? I haven’t. I keep trying to come up with a name quad that wouldn't sound super annoying in a hypothetical Twitter bio and I can't find a single combination that doesn't sound like a crazy person.
- thfuran 3y ago
  If you feel justified in actively disliking all members of a particular demographic group because of the beliefs or actions of other members of the demographic, you're either racist or, if that demographic happens not to align with race, merely morally equivalent.

TheAceOfHearts 3y ago

Good for Elon, at least he has the courage to stand by his beliefs and ideals enough to actually try allowing as much free speech as possible. We'll see how well it works out long term. My personal experience with Twitter hasn't changed significantly since Elon took over. I think rather than having opaque moderation, Community Notes / Birdwatch does a much better job at calling out bad posts. Rather than trying to sweep bad content under the rug, we confront it and call out any inaccuracies. The real power of Community Notes is that anyone can get called out. Even Elon's own posts have gotten Community Notes a couple times.

workingdog 3y ago
The Community Notes are generally trustworthy. They've given me reasons to change my perceptions as I know they're not one-sided.
pupppet 3y ago
> The real power of Community Notes is that anyone can get called out. Even Elon's own posts have gotten Community Notes a couple times. And promptly pointed out how community notes are being gamed when this happens. Call me crazy but I don’t think the guy who routinely converses with Nazis will be applying his “free speech absolutist” ideals uniformly.
- asguy 3y ago
  > the guy who routinely converses with Nazis Elon routinely converses with Nazis? Which ones?
root_axis 3y ago
> at least he has the courage to stand by his beliefs and ideals enough to actually try allowing as much free speech as possible. I see this sentiment a lot, but how do you reconcile that with his explicitly anti-free speech behavior. Censoring links for people he doesn't like https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33991136 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33991136 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35565359 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35565359 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34035149 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34035149 Censoring links to competitor websites https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35482222 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35482222 Banning ads that disagree with his personal politics https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36916334 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36916334 and many other examples.

skymast 3y ago

[dead]

s9w 3y ago

[dead]

smitty1e 3y ago

Hate exists in the heart, not the rules. Part of our analytic challenge is properly placing responsibility. Alas, their is much power to be gained in designating and nurturing grievances.

jmye 3y ago

Absolutely shocking advertisers are fleeing. Cue the whining from “free speech absolutists” who think free speech is them speaking and nothing more.

hn1986 3y ago
[flagged]

Always_Anon 3y ago

[flagged]

Zigurd 3y ago
[flagged]
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- Always_Anon 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - dang 3y ago
    We've banned this account for using HN primarily for ideological battle. That's not allowed here. Regardless of what you're battling for or against, it's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
    - Always_Anon 3y ago
      [dead]