5 ms·

Software patents are a bad joke, thanks for being one of the pioneers of the worst thing to happen in our field.

by tingol 3y ago

BubbleRings 3y ago
Ha, I knew someone would start off by adding a hostile comment of that form. What can I say? If you had been James Marshall, and you noticed the gold that kicked off the California gold rush, do you think you would you have left it there in the water, because you think you would have been able to see into the future, and see the terrible ecological consequences that gold mining sometimes brings? No, you would have picked it up, like anybody else.
- beeboobaa 3y ago
  [flagged]
- simseye 3y ago
  Software patents have become an anthithesis to the spirit of adventure. They're more of a joyless bureaucratic drudgery that drips of sadness.
  - MaxBarraclough 3y ago
    Donald Knuth put it best: > I decry the current tendency to seek patents on algorithms. [...] There are better ways to earn a living than to prevent other people from making use of one's contributions to computer science. The Art of Computer Programming, Volume III ( via https://lwn.net/Articles/132926/ https://lwn.net/Articles/132926/ )
- ahoka 3y ago
  But you just mentioned that you had a patent, a thing thing that exists to protect innovators from being copied by competitors to leave a fair time to cash out on your work, but ultimately a large corporation got ownership of it. How is this not a joke?
  - BubbleRings 3y ago
    Not sure what you mean. I have been joking some here in this thread, but overall, the thing was one of the most serious things in my life. As to how MS ended up with it, I probably chose the wrong partners for the startup where we tried to monetize it. At the end of the startup, there was a 20 minute phone call, where I had to decide to either keep my patent and probably ruin my chances to marry the love of my life, or to sign over the patent, take some cash and stock, start my new life with my fiancé, and hope that I could come up with another patent that good later in my life. I chose wisely.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - jerpint 3y ago
      That’s very beautiful, thanks for sharing and happy to read you have no regrets :)
- loceng 3y ago
  Ha, I knew someone who likes/has patents would quickly avoid-justify and deflect the peer pressure and related shame. What's more important is if you're doing something good with whatever gains a patent may be providing you; but I also what detriment there may be and how much in fact your patent (and others) actually suffocate and slow the advancement of humanity and the quality of life for all.
- aredox 3y ago
  "I have the same morals as a XIXth-century gold digger" is not the argument that will win you respect. But if that's your baseline, can I come with a Colt and shoot you in the back? "If I had been Agnus McVee..." And BTW, James Marshall died penniless in a hut. The gold rush destroyed his business (a mill) and he never found gold again.
pylua 3y ago
Don’t hate the player hate the game.
- concordDance 3y ago
  Hating those who play the game can be an effective deterrent to decreasing the number of people who play the negative sum game.
  - pylua 3y ago
    Has this ever been proven or is there a case study on this? I am genuinely curious.
    - Y-bar 3y ago
      Why do you feel compelled to carry water for the people participating in behaviour detrimental to society?
    - amelius 3y ago
      Why do we always have to prove this in one direction? You could take the opposite stance and say that we don't need any patents because look at open source and how stuff is created without anyone being paid crazy sums of money.
- idle_zealot 3y ago
  I have room in my heart to hate both.
thfuran 3y ago
Software patents are no more of a joke than hardware patents.
- benj111 3y ago
  To me there seems to be 3 issues. 1. You're basically patenting algorithms, which aren't supposed to be patentable. 2. There seems to be an assumption that anything new is unobvious and therefore patentable. And in computing that isn't really the case. I have no programming training but still independently invented lz compression. Something that is deemed patent worthy. 3. A patent is supposed to describe how to actually do the thing. Software patents by and large don't do that.
  - amelius 3y ago
    1. Why is it any different for hardware? Hardware is nowadays designed on computers too. It's all computers until someone sends it over to Asia where it is then manufactured. 2. Again, why is that different for hardware? I really wonder why my friends who studied mechanical engineering have the privilege of making money with their inventions, while I cannot ...
    - benj111 3y ago
      That hardware was developed on computer is irrelevant. A piece of hardware designed with a ruler and protractor is indistinguishable from one designed on a computer. Re 2. If you 'invented' some trading cards based on HN members. That would be new in the sense that it's never been done before. But that doesn't make it patentable. We all have a sense that that's just an obvious iteration on a theme. But trading cards based on HN members, on a computer somehow becomes patentable. You can make money from your invention. There's still copyright. If you want to take an algorithm and turn it into an actual product, provide an implementation then I'm not averse to patenting. Currently we're in a situation where you could come up with the idea of listening to music 'on a computer' patent that very broad, basic thing. Without putting any work into an actual implementation. That isn't an invention, it's just an idea.
lettergram 3y ago
Then work on changing government, vote accordingly and attempt to lobby
- spzb 3y ago
  Unfortunately we're not all multi-billionaires.
dang 3y ago
Please don't post in the flamewar style, and please don't cross into personal attack. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting here, we'd appreciate it. Edit: although you haven't been posting often, your previous two comments also broke the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37714505 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37714505 (Sept 2023) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35166528 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35166528 (March 2023) We have to ban accounts that post like this, and I don't want to ban you, so if you'd please fix this that would be good.

Software patents are a bad joke, thanks for being one of the pioneers of the worst thing to happen in our field.

by tingol 3y ago

Software patents are a bad joke, thanks for being one of the pioneers of the worst thing to happen in our field.

Ha, I knew someone would start off by adding a hostile comment of that form. What can I say? If you had been James Marshall, and you noticed the gold that kicked off the California gold rush, do you think you would you have left it there in the water, because you think you would have been able to see into the future, and see the terrible ecological consequences that gold mining sometimes brings? No, you would have picked it up, like anybody else.

beeboobaa 3y ago
[flagged]
simseye 3y ago
Software patents have become an anthithesis to the spirit of adventure. They're more of a joyless bureaucratic drudgery that drips of sadness.
- MaxBarraclough 3y ago
  Donald Knuth put it best: > I decry the current tendency to seek patents on algorithms. [...] There are better ways to earn a living than to prevent other people from making use of one's contributions to computer science. The Art of Computer Programming, Volume III ( via https://lwn.net/Articles/132926/ https://lwn.net/Articles/132926/ )
ahoka 3y ago
But you just mentioned that you had a patent, a thing thing that exists to protect innovators from being copied by competitors to leave a fair time to cash out on your work, but ultimately a large corporation got ownership of it. How is this not a joke?
- BubbleRings 3y ago
  Not sure what you mean. I have been joking some here in this thread, but overall, the thing was one of the most serious things in my life. As to how MS ended up with it, I probably chose the wrong partners for the startup where we tried to monetize it. At the end of the startup, there was a 20 minute phone call, where I had to decide to either keep my patent and probably ruin my chances to marry the love of my life, or to sign over the patent, take some cash and stock, start my new life with my fiancé, and hope that I could come up with another patent that good later in my life. I chose wisely.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - jerpint 3y ago
    That’s very beautiful, thanks for sharing and happy to read you have no regrets :)
loceng 3y ago
Ha, I knew someone who likes/has patents would quickly avoid-justify and deflect the peer pressure and related shame. What's more important is if you're doing something good with whatever gains a patent may be providing you; but I also what detriment there may be and how much in fact your patent (and others) actually suffocate and slow the advancement of humanity and the quality of life for all.
aredox 3y ago
"I have the same morals as a XIXth-century gold digger" is not the argument that will win you respect. But if that's your baseline, can I come with a Colt and shoot you in the back? "If I had been Agnus McVee..." And BTW, James Marshall died penniless in a hut. The gold rush destroyed his business (a mill) and he never found gold again.

pylua 3y ago

Don’t hate the player hate the game.

concordDance 3y ago
Hating those who play the game can be an effective deterrent to decreasing the number of people who play the negative sum game.
- pylua 3y ago
  Has this ever been proven or is there a case study on this? I am genuinely curious.
  - Y-bar 3y ago
    Why do you feel compelled to carry water for the people participating in behaviour detrimental to society?
  - amelius 3y ago
    Why do we always have to prove this in one direction? You could take the opposite stance and say that we don't need any patents because look at open source and how stuff is created without anyone being paid crazy sums of money.
idle_zealot 3y ago
I have room in my heart to hate both.

thfuran 3y ago

Software patents are no more of a joke than hardware patents.

benj111 3y ago
To me there seems to be 3 issues. 1. You're basically patenting algorithms, which aren't supposed to be patentable. 2. There seems to be an assumption that anything new is unobvious and therefore patentable. And in computing that isn't really the case. I have no programming training but still independently invented lz compression. Something that is deemed patent worthy. 3. A patent is supposed to describe how to actually do the thing. Software patents by and large don't do that.
- amelius 3y ago
  1. Why is it any different for hardware? Hardware is nowadays designed on computers too. It's all computers until someone sends it over to Asia where it is then manufactured. 2. Again, why is that different for hardware? I really wonder why my friends who studied mechanical engineering have the privilege of making money with their inventions, while I cannot ...
  - benj111 3y ago
    That hardware was developed on computer is irrelevant. A piece of hardware designed with a ruler and protractor is indistinguishable from one designed on a computer. Re 2. If you 'invented' some trading cards based on HN members. That would be new in the sense that it's never been done before. But that doesn't make it patentable. We all have a sense that that's just an obvious iteration on a theme. But trading cards based on HN members, on a computer somehow becomes patentable. You can make money from your invention. There's still copyright. If you want to take an algorithm and turn it into an actual product, provide an implementation then I'm not averse to patenting. Currently we're in a situation where you could come up with the idea of listening to music 'on a computer' patent that very broad, basic thing. Without putting any work into an actual implementation. That isn't an invention, it's just an idea.

lettergram 3y ago

Then work on changing government, vote accordingly and attempt to lobby

spzb 3y ago
Unfortunately we're not all multi-billionaires.

dang 3y ago

Please don't post in the flamewar style, and please don't cross into personal attack. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting here, we'd appreciate it. Edit: although you haven't been posting often, your previous two comments also broke the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37714505 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37714505 (Sept 2023) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35166528 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35166528 (March 2023) We have to ban accounts that post like this, and I don't want to ban you, so if you'd please fix this that would be good.