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Do you think the role the LLM plays in this system is analogous to what Tao is talking about?

by Imnimo 3y ago

nopinsight 3y ago
What Tao does when proposing an idea most likely encapsulates much more than what a current LLM does. I’m no Terence Tao but I sometimes come up with useful ideas. In a more complex case, I revise those ideas in my head and sometimes on paper several times before they become useful (analogous to using evolutionary algorithms). However, it is impractical to think consciously of all possible variations. So the brain only surfaces ones likely to be useful. This is the role an LLM plays here. An expert or an LLM with more relevant experiences would be better at suggesting these variations to try. Chess grandmasters often don’t consciously simulate more possibilities than novices.
- Imnimo 3y ago
  Critically, though, the LLM is not acting as a domain expert here. It's acting as a code mutator. The expertise it brings to the table is not mathematical - Codey doesn't have any special insight into bin packing heuristics. It's not generating "suggestive hints and promising leads", it's just help the evolutionary search avoid nonsense code mutations.
  - nopinsight 3y ago
    An LLM serves as a sort of “expert” programmer here. Programming itself is a pretty complex domain in which a purely evolutionary algorithm isn’t efficient. We can imagine LLMs trained in mathematical programming or a different domain playing the same role more effectively in this framework.
    - Imnimo 3y ago
      I disagree that the type of coding the LLM is doing here is "expert" level in any meaningful sense. Look for example at the code for the bin-packing heuristics: https://github.com/google-deepmind/funsearch/blob/main/bin_packing/bin_packing.ipynb https://github.com/google-deepmind/funsearch/blob/main/bin_p... These aren't complex or insightful programs - they're pretty short simple functions, of the sort you typically get from program evolution. The LLM's role here is just proposing edits, not leveraging specialized knowledge or even really exercising the limits of existing LLMs' coding capabilities.
      - nopinsight 3y ago
        To be clearer, the word “expert” in my comment above is in quotation marks because an LLM has more programming expertise than a non-programmer or an evolutionary algorithm, but not anywhere near a true expert programmer.

Do you think the role the LLM plays in this system is analogous to what Tao is talking about?

by Imnimo 3y ago

Do you think the role the LLM plays in this system is analogous to what Tao is talking about?

What Tao does when proposing an idea most likely encapsulates much more than what a current LLM does. I’m no Terence Tao but I sometimes come up with useful ideas. In a more complex case, I revise those ideas in my head and sometimes on paper several times before they become useful (analogous to using evolutionary algorithms). However, it is impractical to think consciously of all possible variations. So the brain only surfaces ones likely to be useful. This is the role an LLM plays here. An expert or an LLM with more relevant experiences would be better at suggesting these variations to try. Chess grandmasters often don’t consciously simulate more possibilities than novices.

Imnimo 3y ago
Critically, though, the LLM is not acting as a domain expert here. It's acting as a code mutator. The expertise it brings to the table is not mathematical - Codey doesn't have any special insight into bin packing heuristics. It's not generating "suggestive hints and promising leads", it's just help the evolutionary search avoid nonsense code mutations.
- nopinsight 3y ago
  An LLM serves as a sort of “expert” programmer here. Programming itself is a pretty complex domain in which a purely evolutionary algorithm isn’t efficient. We can imagine LLMs trained in mathematical programming or a different domain playing the same role more effectively in this framework.
  - Imnimo 3y ago
    I disagree that the type of coding the LLM is doing here is "expert" level in any meaningful sense. Look for example at the code for the bin-packing heuristics: https://github.com/google-deepmind/funsearch/blob/main/bin_packing/bin_packing.ipynb https://github.com/google-deepmind/funsearch/blob/main/bin_p... These aren't complex or insightful programs - they're pretty short simple functions, of the sort you typically get from program evolution. The LLM's role here is just proposing edits, not leveraging specialized knowledge or even really exercising the limits of existing LLMs' coding capabilities.
    - nopinsight 3y ago
      To be clearer, the word “expert” in my comment above is in quotation marks because an LLM has more programming expertise than a non-programmer or an evolutionary algorithm, but not anywhere near a true expert programmer.