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Did no-one actually read the article? This happening in Hakodate in Hokkaido, not anywhere near Fukushima. "Experts have speculated that the migratory fish in

Did no-one actually read the article? This happening in Hakodate in Hokkaido, not anywhere near Fukushima. "Experts have speculated that the migratory fish in both areas had become stranded after being chased to the point of exhaustion by amberjack and other predatory fish. Mass mortality events can also occur when there are sudden drops in the water temperature, causing the fish to go into shock, they added." "Images of the fish have been widely shared on social media – many accompanied by Fukushima conspiracy theories." "“There have been no abnormalities found in the results of water-monitoring surveys,” the fisheries agency said, referring to the water that has been pumped out of the Fukushima plant so far. “We’re concerned about the proliferation of information that’s not based on scientific evidence.”" I'm shocked that Hacker News of all places would immediately leap to conspiracy theories.

BiteCode_dev 3y ago
[flagged]
- LeoPanthera 3y ago
  There is a perfectly reasonable counterargument, in the article, which I included in the comment you're replying to.
  - BiteCode_dev 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - ceejayoz 3y ago
      "Also downvoted, and so fast? What is it, Japan gov PR troops cleaning up?" You are clearly not fundamentally opposed to "name calling".
      - BiteCode_dev 3y ago
        I would have added "/s" but clearly it didn't do any good to OP.
phone8675309 3y ago
I’m not shocked. People are deeply uneducated about nuclear energy, nuclear disaster cleanup, and radiation so you’re going to get the poorly educated piling in here spouting nonsense. In true Gell-Mann amnesia fashion we will then see their posts on other tech topics and forget how off base, conspiratorial, or crackpot they were about this and engage with them despite their obvious inability to reason.
- hef19898 3y ago
  That has nothing to do with being un-educated on nuclear power, but rather a, sadly, common kneejerk reaction on HN where people read the headline and then jump from there to whatever biased conclusion they want.
  - nomel 3y ago
    > common kneejerk reaction on HN It may be unexpected at HN, but it's universal.
- ThinkBeat 3y ago
  What would you say are the long-term negative effects of the biggest nuclear diasters that we have had so far? and what could be done better? What would make you oppose building new reactors? I dont buy the 100% pro nuclear speaking points. Nor do I buy the 100% against nuclear speaking points I do have a family who have suffered from the debris from Chernobyl. as did their communities.
ceejayoz 3y ago
Surfacing this reply to a dead post, too: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38646354 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38646354 > Don't post this kind of scaremongering when you don't have the facts. The water being released from Fukushima is being monitored more than probably any other nuclear facility on the planet right now. You could drink it. https://news.un.org/en/story/2023/08/1140037 https://news.un.org/en/story/2023/08/1140037
- tree_enjoyer 3y ago
  Well, authorities have also said the area around Palestine, Ohio, is safe after the massive toxic chemical spill, and I don't really believe that. I'm not arguing the water from Fukushima is not safe, but I will absolutely argue that one should be skeptical of authorities saying "do not worry everything is fine"
  - ceejayoz 3y ago
    China can pop a geiger counter 12 miles offshore if they like. We don't have to take Japan's word for it; the IAEA is monitoring, and significant radiation releases are hard to hide. The physics here is not on the side of conspiracy theorists. > China, which opposed the release and imposed a ban on Japanese seafood, has been accused of hypocrisy since its own nuclear plants routinely pump wastewater with higher levels of tritium than that found in Fukushima’s discharge. I have a vial of radioactive tritium on my keychain as a novelty. edit: If you like, when they're discharging water, there's literally real-time monitoring you can watch on a dashboard. https://www.iaea.org/topics/response/fukushima-daiichi-nuclear-accident/fukushima-daiichi-alps-treated-water-discharge/tepco-data https://www.iaea.org/topics/response/fukushima-daiichi-nucle...
a_gnostic 3y ago
>I'm shocked that Hacker News of all places would immediately leap to conspiracy theories. Why? Postulating alternate solutions, and testing them, is the essence of hacking.
- ceejayoz 3y ago
  It's a lot easier if you can rule out the silly alternates.
  - a_gnostic 3y ago
    If it's silly, but it works, it ain't silly. With hacking anyways.
TheBigSalad 3y ago
I don't see a single comment suggesting that.
- ceejayoz 3y ago
  Turn on showdead in your settings.
alephnan 3y ago
Hakodate and Fukushima is not that far apart. A torii gate washed all the way to Oregon. https://japanesegarden.org/the-gates-of-hope/ https://japanesegarden.org/the-gates-of-hope/ > Experts have speculated Yes. Are experts the only ones who are allowed to speculate ? > Mass mortality events can also occur when there are sudden drops in the water temperature If we’re enumerating things that can occur… I mean, there’s no evidence for those two scenarios these experts have speculated on either right? It wouldn’t be speculation otherwise. > fisheries agency said You mean the same people who have a vested economic interest? > "“There have been no abnormalities found in the results of water-monitoring surveys,” The very premise of conspiracy theorists is that authorities are not to be trusted. There’s no intellectual debate to be had if you’re presuming the authorities to be definitive. It’s dogmatism. This comes a day after cabinet members resign over fundraising fraud. > immediately leap to conspiracy theories Why are you immediately leaping to the conclusion that they are conspiracy theories? Japan is no stranger to cover ups. We don’t have to talk about war crimes. Just look at Carlos Ghosn. You can call it scientific or healthy skepticism, too. The real question is why is there a growing level of distrust? Governments are telling people central banks are working to their benefit and the economy is doing great, meanwhile real wages have declined and wealth disparity widens. In a country where salary raises are 1%, maybe, and now everyday items at the convenient store are going up a ten yen coin or two, it doesn’t take Chinese propaganda to make even Japanese people grow skeptical of authorities. It FEELS like the BOJ’s actions prioritize corporate and the asset-wielding class’ interests first. The media only covers Japanese people support for one particular American stance on a current geopolitical issue. I’ve not seen this on the ground, but have seen people here holding pickets for the exact opposite stance. Japan ranks pretty poor on freedom of the press. https://amp.dw.com/en/why-japan-ranks-poorly-in-press-freedom/a-65549778 https://amp.dw.com/en/why-japan-ranks-poorly-in-press-freedo... > proliferation of information that’s not based on scientific evidence The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence - Karl Popper, philosopher of science. Speaking about the lack of evidence, there’s not much evidence of the facilities on Ōkunoshima because the staff were instructed to destroy it all. I’ve been to all 47 prefectures of Japan atleast 3 times over now, and the most dystopian place is Gunkanjima. It’s controversial that a place of industrialists could be considered a world heritage, even by local Japanese people, but Mitsubishi Heavy Industry has good lobbyists. It was and still is a company town, where they control the narrative. It’s what I imagine a tour in North Korea would be like. Meanwhile, the one museum in the city to discuss slave labor was barraged with Google reviews for being a conspiracy. As far as the Japanese academic institutions are concerned, Nanjing is a conspiracy that never happened and never taught. One of the largest shrines in the country enshrines convicted war criminals where annual festivals drawing hundreds of thousands of visitors occur. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasukuni_Shrine https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasukuni_Shrine Here’s a list of museums in Japan that right-winged Japanese people consider conspiracies and leave 1 star reviews for: - Oka Masaharu Museum, Nagasaki - Okunoshima Poison Gas Museum (where I learned that locals didn’t know poison gas was being experimented. They were sure to place it far away from Tokyo because they didn’t want to contaminate rich/city people) - Kyoto Museum for World Peace (as a rule of thumb, if a museum in Japan mentions Peace, it’s some kind of propaganda, whether left or right) - Bonus: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mimizuka https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mimizuka. This one is not a disputed controversial or conspiracy, but just find it interesting that it’s on some random unassuming street without anyone noticing, despite being in walking distance of the most crowded tourist areas in Kyoto You can’t even get most Samsung products in this country, maybe except a few flagship phones, because Samsung replaced Japanese emojis with Korean ones. https://blog.emojipedia.org/samsung-puts-japan-back-on-the-map/ https://blog.emojipedia.org/samsung-puts-japan-back-on-the-m.... The relevance here is that these countries will do things out of dysfunction, pettiness, malice and/or incompetency, and rarely out of nobility and honor. Maybe you’re influenced by this Western-centric depiction and Hollywood trope: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=giBmzgW-iOk https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=giBmzgW-iOk

BiteCode_dev 3y ago

[flagged]

LeoPanthera 3y ago
There is a perfectly reasonable counterargument, in the article, which I included in the comment you're replying to.
- BiteCode_dev 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - ceejayoz 3y ago
    "Also downvoted, and so fast? What is it, Japan gov PR troops cleaning up?" You are clearly not fundamentally opposed to "name calling".
    - BiteCode_dev 3y ago
      I would have added "/s" but clearly it didn't do any good to OP.

phone8675309 3y ago

I’m not shocked. People are deeply uneducated about nuclear energy, nuclear disaster cleanup, and radiation so you’re going to get the poorly educated piling in here spouting nonsense. In true Gell-Mann amnesia fashion we will then see their posts on other tech topics and forget how off base, conspiratorial, or crackpot they were about this and engage with them despite their obvious inability to reason.

hef19898 3y ago
That has nothing to do with being un-educated on nuclear power, but rather a, sadly, common kneejerk reaction on HN where people read the headline and then jump from there to whatever biased conclusion they want.
- nomel 3y ago
  > common kneejerk reaction on HN It may be unexpected at HN, but it's universal.
ThinkBeat 3y ago
What would you say are the long-term negative effects of the biggest nuclear diasters that we have had so far? and what could be done better? What would make you oppose building new reactors? I dont buy the 100% pro nuclear speaking points. Nor do I buy the 100% against nuclear speaking points I do have a family who have suffered from the debris from Chernobyl. as did their communities.

ceejayoz 3y ago

Surfacing this reply to a dead post, too: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38646354 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38646354 > Don't post this kind of scaremongering when you don't have the facts. The water being released from Fukushima is being monitored more than probably any other nuclear facility on the planet right now. You could drink it. https://news.un.org/en/story/2023/08/1140037 https://news.un.org/en/story/2023/08/1140037

tree_enjoyer 3y ago
Well, authorities have also said the area around Palestine, Ohio, is safe after the massive toxic chemical spill, and I don't really believe that. I'm not arguing the water from Fukushima is not safe, but I will absolutely argue that one should be skeptical of authorities saying "do not worry everything is fine"
- ceejayoz 3y ago
  China can pop a geiger counter 12 miles offshore if they like. We don't have to take Japan's word for it; the IAEA is monitoring, and significant radiation releases are hard to hide. The physics here is not on the side of conspiracy theorists. > China, which opposed the release and imposed a ban on Japanese seafood, has been accused of hypocrisy since its own nuclear plants routinely pump wastewater with higher levels of tritium than that found in Fukushima’s discharge. I have a vial of radioactive tritium on my keychain as a novelty. edit: If you like, when they're discharging water, there's literally real-time monitoring you can watch on a dashboard. https://www.iaea.org/topics/response/fukushima-daiichi-nuclear-accident/fukushima-daiichi-alps-treated-water-discharge/tepco-data https://www.iaea.org/topics/response/fukushima-daiichi-nucle...

a_gnostic 3y ago

>I'm shocked that Hacker News of all places would immediately leap to conspiracy theories. Why? Postulating alternate solutions, and testing them, is the essence of hacking.

ceejayoz 3y ago
It's a lot easier if you can rule out the silly alternates.
- a_gnostic 3y ago
  If it's silly, but it works, it ain't silly. With hacking anyways.

TheBigSalad 3y ago

I don't see a single comment suggesting that.

ceejayoz 3y ago
Turn on showdead in your settings.

alephnan 3y ago

Hakodate and Fukushima is not that far apart. A torii gate washed all the way to Oregon. https://japanesegarden.org/the-gates-of-hope/ https://japanesegarden.org/the-gates-of-hope/ > Experts have speculated Yes. Are experts the only ones who are allowed to speculate ? > Mass mortality events can also occur when there are sudden drops in the water temperature If we’re enumerating things that can occur… I mean, there’s no evidence for those two scenarios these experts have speculated on either right? It wouldn’t be speculation otherwise. > fisheries agency said You mean the same people who have a vested economic interest? > "“There have been no abnormalities found in the results of water-monitoring surveys,” The very premise of conspiracy theorists is that authorities are not to be trusted. There’s no intellectual debate to be had if you’re presuming the authorities to be definitive. It’s dogmatism. This comes a day after cabinet members resign over fundraising fraud. > immediately leap to conspiracy theories Why are you immediately leaping to the conclusion that they are conspiracy theories? Japan is no stranger to cover ups. We don’t have to talk about war crimes. Just look at Carlos Ghosn. You can call it scientific or healthy skepticism, too. The real question is why is there a growing level of distrust? Governments are telling people central banks are working to their benefit and the economy is doing great, meanwhile real wages have declined and wealth disparity widens. In a country where salary raises are 1%, maybe, and now everyday items at the convenient store are going up a ten yen coin or two, it doesn’t take Chinese propaganda to make even Japanese people grow skeptical of authorities. It FEELS like the BOJ’s actions prioritize corporate and the asset-wielding class’ interests first. The media only covers Japanese people support for one particular American stance on a current geopolitical issue. I’ve not seen this on the ground, but have seen people here holding pickets for the exact opposite stance. Japan ranks pretty poor on freedom of the press. https://amp.dw.com/en/why-japan-ranks-poorly-in-press-freedom/a-65549778 https://amp.dw.com/en/why-japan-ranks-poorly-in-press-freedo... > proliferation of information that’s not based on scientific evidence The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence - Karl Popper, philosopher of science. Speaking about the lack of evidence, there’s not much evidence of the facilities on Ōkunoshima because the staff were instructed to destroy it all. I’ve been to all 47 prefectures of Japan atleast 3 times over now, and the most dystopian place is Gunkanjima. It’s controversial that a place of industrialists could be considered a world heritage, even by local Japanese people, but Mitsubishi Heavy Industry has good lobbyists. It was and still is a company town, where they control the narrative. It’s what I imagine a tour in North Korea would be like. Meanwhile, the one museum in the city to discuss slave labor was barraged with Google reviews for being a conspiracy. As far as the Japanese academic institutions are concerned, Nanjing is a conspiracy that never happened and never taught. One of the largest shrines in the country enshrines convicted war criminals where annual festivals drawing hundreds of thousands of visitors occur. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasukuni_Shrine https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasukuni_Shrine Here’s a list of museums in Japan that right-winged Japanese people consider conspiracies and leave 1 star reviews for: - Oka Masaharu Museum, Nagasaki - Okunoshima Poison Gas Museum (where I learned that locals didn’t know poison gas was being experimented. They were sure to place it far away from Tokyo because they didn’t want to contaminate rich/city people) - Kyoto Museum for World Peace (as a rule of thumb, if a museum in Japan mentions Peace, it’s some kind of propaganda, whether left or right) - Bonus: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mimizuka https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mimizuka. This one is not a disputed controversial or conspiracy, but just find it interesting that it’s on some random unassuming street without anyone noticing, despite being in walking distance of the most crowded tourist areas in Kyoto You can’t even get most Samsung products in this country, maybe except a few flagship phones, because Samsung replaced Japanese emojis with Korean ones. https://blog.emojipedia.org/samsung-puts-japan-back-on-the-map/ https://blog.emojipedia.org/samsung-puts-japan-back-on-the-m.... The relevance here is that these countries will do things out of dysfunction, pettiness, malice and/or incompetency, and rarely out of nobility and honor. Maybe you’re influenced by this Western-centric depiction and Hollywood trope: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=giBmzgW-iOk https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=giBmzgW-iOk