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Japan says reason behind 1,200 tonnes of fish washing ashore is unknown
- tyronehed 3y ago[dead]
- ejb999 3y ago[flagged]
- voz_ 3y agoThis is unscientific. The burden of proof is on the person making the claim.
- BiteCode_dev 3y agoWhat would be unscientific would be to ignore a plausible theory and not explore it using independent researchers from several sources. Or forbidding good sarcasm or jokes about it, because I don't know any PHD around me that don't have those in spades.
- ejb999 3y agowhich claim was made? the only claim I see is Japan asserting that it has nothing to do with the radioactive waste they are dumping into the ocean - I say the burden of proof is on them, since that is the claim they are making.
- lxgr 3y agoWhere are you seeing Japan making that claim? From the article: > The report noted that dead fish had begun washing ashore almost four months after the plant began discharging the water – which contains small quantities of the radioactive isotope tritium – into the Pacific. > But no one has been able to confirm the cause. “The cause is unknown at the moment,” Mikine Fujiwara, a local fisheries official, told the newspaper. “We plan to sample the seawater at the site and examine it to uncover the cause.”
- jamesy0ung 3y agoIt could be a case of correlation not causation Too early to make a judgement on the validity of the claims as there is not much evidence for
- ejb999 3y agoI am not asserting anything Japan is asserting that they have no idea what the problem is, or why it is happening, but after zero investigating, have asserted them dumping radiation into the ocean is not the cause - without any proof.
- BiteCode_dev 3y ago[flagged]
- lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago> have asserted them dumping radiation into the ocean is not the cause - without any proof Is there a passage in the article that makes this assertion or are you getting it from a different source?
- ramesh31 3y agoThere's an abnormally large El Nino this year, and it's currently in a transitionary phase: https://www.foxweather.com/weather-news/when-will-el-nino-end-answer-forecast https://www.foxweather.com/weather-news/when-will-el-nino-en... Occam's razor: some warmer (or colder) water ended up somewhere in the Pacific it usually doesn't, and some fish died.
- BiteCode_dev 3y agoThe problem with this theory is that fish can move to fresher water, and they often do. It's not impossible, and we got recent examples of such events, but calling it Occams Razor is generous. It's another, decent, working theory.
- swells34 3y agoYou're assuming an absolute. If none of the fish had moved to fresher water, I imagine there'd be a lot more fish washing ashore. If all of the fish had moved to fresher water, there would be no fish washing ashore. Also, abnormal ocean currents have caused this before.
- Communitivity 3y ago[flagged]
- LeoPanthera 3y agoDon't post this kind of scaremongering when you don't have the facts. The water being released from Fukushima is being monitored more than probably any other nuclear facility on the planet right now. You could drink it. https://news.un.org/en/story/2023/08/1140037 https://news.un.org/en/story/2023/08/1140037
- BiteCode_dev 3y ago[flagged]
- chikenf00t 3y agoThis should almost be pinned. I thought this was common knowledge. I don't understand if people are ignorant of this or are completely ignoring it for some reason.
- Communitivity 3y agoI don't care if I get downvoted for this, I have to respond to being labelled a scaremonger, and this blatant acceptance of the Japanese government's view. There are two sides to the "facts" regarding the Japanese release of the Fukushima water. I presented a hypothesis, presented both sides, and suggested scientific analysis that if done could confirm or fail to confirm that hypothesis. To call that scaremongering shows a lack of understanding of the English language, among other lacks. Yes, Japan says the ALPS treatment system removes everything except Tritium, and it says the level of Tritium is safe to drink according to international standards[1]. However, as shown below there are a number of organizations who do not agree with or trust Japan's assertions of safety. Panels on public policy in Japan also point out that there are no studies on the long term effects of Tritium[2]. Greenpeace and 6 UN Rapporteurs (the people UN special committees have appointed to report on their proceedings) condemned the water release as potentially further harmful to the people of Fukushima and the marine ecosystem [3][4][5]. U.S. National Association of Marine Laboratories expressed their opposition to the plan and stated that “there was a lack of adequate and accurate scientific data supporting Japan's assertion of safety" [6]. On a personal note, I've worked on three different U.S. military bases. All three had problems with groundwater contaminants from jet fuels and other things. All three had tests that certified 'the levels of contaminants are below danger levels and the water is safe to drink'. The majority of the people I knew at all three bases drank bottled water. On two of those bases I was explicitly warned I shouldn't drink the water, to get bottled water, when I start work on the base. The definition of safety is also suspect when the people defining it have a vested interest in whatever it is being safe. Japan's release of the water has to be viewed as safe, because if otherwise then the implications and consequences from the rest of the world would be untenable for Japan. [1] "The subcommittee on handling of the ALPS treated water report" (PDF). Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry. 10 February 2020. pp. 12, 16, 17, 33, 34. Archived (PDF) from the original on 22 December 2020. Retrieved 10 April 2020. [2] Ōshima, Kenichi; Mitsuta, Kanna; Gotō, Manashi (2021-04-11). "福島第一原発のALPS（多核種除去設備）処理汚染水海洋放出問題についての緊急声明". 原子力市民委員会 [Citizens' Commission on Nuclear Energy]. Tokyo. Archived from the original on 2021-04-11. [3] Greenpeace International (13 April 2021). "The Japanese government's decision to discharge Fukushima contaminated water ignores human rights and international maritime law". Greenpeace. Archived from the original on 15 April 2021. Retrieved 15 April 2021. [4] Tuncak, Baskut; Fakhri, Michael; Voule, Clément Nyaletsossi; Calí-Tzay, José Francisco (2020-06-09). "Fukushima: Japan must not ignore human rights obligations on nuclear waste disposal – UN experts". Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights (press release). Archived from the original on 2020-06-15. [5] Orellana, Marcos A.; Fakhri, Michael; Boyd, David (2021-04-15). "Japan: UN experts say deeply disappointed by decision to discharge Fukushima water". Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights (press release). Archived from the original on 2021-04-15. [6] "Despite opposition, Japan may soon dump Fukushima wastewater into the Pacific". www.science.org. Archived from the original on 2023-01-25. Retrieved 2023-01-26.
- LeoPanthera 3y agoDid no-one actually read the article? This happening in Hakodate in Hokkaido, not anywhere near Fukushima. "Experts have speculated that the migratory fish in both areas had become stranded after being chased to the point of exhaustion by amberjack and other predatory fish. Mass mortality events can also occur when there are sudden drops in the water temperature, causing the fish to go into shock, they added." "Images of the fish have been widely shared on social media – many accompanied by Fukushima conspiracy theories." "“There have been no abnormalities found in the results of water-monitoring surveys,” the fisheries agency said, referring to the water that has been pumped out of the Fukushima plant so far. “We’re concerned about the proliferation of information that’s not based on scientific evidence.”" I'm shocked that Hacker News of all places would immediately leap to conspiracy theories.
- BiteCode_dev 3y ago[flagged]
- LeoPanthera 3y agoThere is a perfectly reasonable counterargument, in the article, which I included in the comment you're replying to.
- BiteCode_dev 3y ago[flagged]
- ceejayoz 3y ago"Also downvoted, and so fast? What is it, Japan gov PR troops cleaning up?" You are clearly not fundamentally opposed to "name calling".
- BiteCode_dev 3y agoI would have added "/s" but clearly it didn't do any good to OP.
- darth_avocado 3y agoThing to note here is that the ocean currents to Hakodate come from the West Coast of Japan, and Fukushima is on the Eastern coast. Not saying it’s not likely the two are linked, but it seems there could be other things at play. Like toxic leaks somewhere else in south east Asia.
- yreg 3y ago> Not saying it’s not likely the two are linked Of course they are unlikely to be linked. The water that's being released is monitored and safe to drink.
- EA-3167 3y agoNot to mention that large fish kills aren't unheard of, and are increasing in frequency and scope as warming waters, pollution and over-fishing damage the oceans and everything that lives in them. Look at what's left of coral reefs in places like Australia, and a bunch of dead sardines feels downright understandable.
- mortallywounded 3y agoUh huh, did the people that said it, drink it?
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- LeoPanthera 3y agoThey did way back in 2011. It's the same water. https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2011/11/01/141909307/to-assure-japan-official-drinks-water-from-fukushima-puddle https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2011/11/01/141909307... Of course, the water being released today is seawater. You could drink a small amount, but it would still be very salty.
- ceejayoz 3y agoAt least one has. https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2011/nov/01/japanese-mp-drinks-water-fukushima https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2011/nov/01/japanese-mp-dr... They also ate fish from the area after the discharges. https://youtu.be/WdKtO1jDVQA?feature=shared https://youtu.be/WdKtO1jDVQA?feature=shared Radiation isn’t some dark magic. We understand it quite well. It’s like recycling pee on the ISS for drinking water; people are inordinately freaked out by something for fundamentally invalid reasons.
- ActionHank 3y agoThe smell must be something awful though
- numpad0 3y ago[flagged]
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- refracture 3y agoThe first article I saw on this noted that the local authorities had to yell at people to stop picking up dead fish to take home and eat.
- PenisBanana 3y ago[flagged]
- alephnan 3y ago> Town officials in Hakodate urged local people not to consume the stranded fish amid reports that some were gathering quantities to sell or eat. A sign of the times compared to Japan’s days of excess peaking in the 80s. If you talk to older Japanese people, those who were in their 20s-30s during the 80s, it’s pretty common to hear about them visiting or even living in LA and NYC. Nowadays, only a third of Japanese people even have passports and Japan ranks lower in English literacy then developing countries like Vietnam.
- nextworddev 3y agoStill 3rd biggest economy in the world
- alephnan 3y agoYou’re saying this as if I am condescending on Japanese people. Something tells me the people negatively reacting to my comment are those who armchair worship the idea of Japan and its cultural exports, then put Japan on a golden pedestal. Americas the #1 economy, doesn’t mean the bottom rung of society is doing well or that it’s a desirable place to live. The economic ranking is irrelevant here. I actually live here and my plight is with the working class people who are struggling to get by.
- nojvek 3y agoAmerica is now the #2 economy. In PPP, China is now the largest economy.
- nextworddev 3y agoNah
- freddealmeida 3y agoCould also be a bacterial bloom that extracted all oxygen from the water and the fish all died due to this. I've seen this before though I can't seem to find evidence for this.
- xchip 3y agoWhat a coincidence.
- hulitu 3y ago> Japan says reason behind 1,200 tonnes of fish washing ashore is unknown Fish ? What fish ? /s They just drowned due to bad weather.