3 ms·

> As with many conspiracy theories, too many people would have to be “in the loop” and not blow the whistle. I used to believe this, but I do not understand ho

> As with many conspiracy theories, too many people would have to be “in the loop” and not blow the whistle. I used to believe this, but I do not understand how anyone can say this after the Snowden revelations. The vast majority of engineers are not martyrs. Given a choice to blow the whistle and then seek politcal asylum in Russia, most will not blow that whistle. Instead, they will live their lives and work to support their families. "But this is not about Goverment Surveillance!" Maybe this is true - I don't want to argue it here but I do think large tech companies are willing accomplices in many surveillance states - but an engineer at Open AI or Dropbox will probably not be facing felony charges for blowing the whistle. They will be facing the end of their career in big tech, and that's enough to dissuade most of them. I'd guess maybe 200 engineers would have to be in loop before there is an 80% chance that one blows the whistle in any five-year period, and if they are careful they can keep the number of engineers in the know MUCH, MUCH smaller than that.

SkyBelow 3y ago
Well we know the official history books are lying to us. Manhattan project? No way that could have been kept secret for as long as it was. All those people "in the loop" and not a single one choosing to blow the whistle? Preposterous. The idea that conspiracy is impossible ignores the conspiracies that happened and were covered up for significant amounts of time, long before we have the aid of modern technology. Why does the argument receive much attention despite that?
- jeremyjh 3y ago
  The Manhattan project did leak info to the Soviets. It is true it stayed out of public view for several years, but a difference in the Manhattan project is that every single person involved was investigated by the FBI beforehand, and the country was so heavily united in the fight against the Axis powers that it is quite likely almost everyone involved was a true believer.
- simonw 3y ago
  "Why does the argument receive much attention despite that?" Because government national security secrets and dumb corporate secrets are different.
simonw 3y ago
The Facebook Mobile apps teams have thousands of engineers. They have access to the source code for the apps. Is there a big black binary blob of source-not-available functionality in there that they are told to include in their builds without question, and for which a competent iOS or Android engineer wouldn't be able to tell if it has access to the microphone?
- jeremyjh 3y ago
  I was referring to the specific argument I quoted, not to the Facebook audio conspiracy it was applied to, since it is also being applied to Dropbox/Open AI where the numbers are much smaller. I think the technical arguments in the Facebook case are compelling enough on their own.

SkyBelow 3y ago

Well we know the official history books are lying to us. Manhattan project? No way that could have been kept secret for as long as it was. All those people "in the loop" and not a single one choosing to blow the whistle? Preposterous. The idea that conspiracy is impossible ignores the conspiracies that happened and were covered up for significant amounts of time, long before we have the aid of modern technology. Why does the argument receive much attention despite that?

jeremyjh 3y ago
The Manhattan project did leak info to the Soviets. It is true it stayed out of public view for several years, but a difference in the Manhattan project is that every single person involved was investigated by the FBI beforehand, and the country was so heavily united in the fight against the Axis powers that it is quite likely almost everyone involved was a true believer.
simonw 3y ago
"Why does the argument receive much attention despite that?" Because government national security secrets and dumb corporate secrets are different.

simonw 3y ago

The Facebook Mobile apps teams have thousands of engineers. They have access to the source code for the apps. Is there a big black binary blob of source-not-available functionality in there that they are told to include in their builds without question, and for which a competent iOS or Android engineer wouldn't be able to tell if it has access to the microphone?

jeremyjh 3y ago
I was referring to the specific argument I quoted, not to the Facebook audio conspiracy it was applied to, since it is also being applied to Dropbox/Open AI where the numbers are much smaller. I think the technical arguments in the Facebook case are compelling enough on their own.