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> Apple makes consumer electronics. Actually, Apple is being used in the enterprise more and more. Its a developer darling and because for a few good years now

> Apple makes consumer electronics. Actually, Apple is being used in the enterprise more and more. Its a developer darling and because for a few good years now there's real Office for Mac and combined with very good MDM capabilities it stopped being a consumer device quite a while back.

amelius 3y ago
Being used in != designed for Industry applications are calling for general purpose computing. Yet Apple only delivers products and services aimed at end consumers.
- kube-system 3y ago
  iPhones, iPads, and Macs are general purpose computers, by any commonly accepted definition. > Apple only delivers products and services aimed at end consumers. That is categorically untrue e.g https://www.apple.com/business/ https://www.apple.com/business/
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- jbverschoor 3y ago
  Tbh, Intel hasn’t been designed for anything. It’s an organically grown isa, based on legacy and monopolist market share
  - amelius 3y ago
    Maybe not being designed for anything is better than being designed for a specific audience.
- JohnBooty 3y ago
  Can you list some of the "general purpose computing" tasks used by "businesses" for which Macs aren't suitable? I mean, they're certainly not the price leaders, but you seem to be saying that Macs are downright unsuited to things "businesses" do.
  - amelius 3y ago
    Imagine you're a car manufacturer. You are looking for a fast single-board computer with fast GPU for your FSD capabilities (say). The Apple Mini might fit the bill. How are you going to do this without rebranding everything about the Mini? You want the car to start up without the Apple logo on the screen, nor the Apple startup chime. Nor do you want system update notifications. Basically you want to remove the entire OS. Replace car manufacturer by medical equipment manufacturer, etc.
    - duskwuff 3y ago
      None of what you're describing is "general-purpose computing".
      - amelius 3y ago
        It is general purpose computing from the perspective that a client company can build anything they want with it. Which is not true for Apple products. They are end user products aimed at the end consumer.
        zztop44 3y ago
        Right, but increasingly many of those “end users” are large businesses.
        ExoticPearTree 3y ago
        You are very wrong about this statement. You can't take a Dell/HP/Thinkpad laptop and transform it in the car multimedia device. You are confusing computer parts with devices. Yes, it is true Apple won't sell you a CPU to put it on the motherboard of your choosing, but it is also true they don't operate in this market.
    - JohnBooty 3y ago
      Feels like you really moved the goalposts a few times there within the same thread. Bit of a wild ride. First, you were talking about desktop users: 80% of worldwide desktop users are business users. Then you moved on to: general purpose computing Which could mean a lot of things, but based on the context -- a thread about the latest chips that Intel has created for the desktop/notebook market -- it sure seemed like we were talking about that. Now you've focused on a subset of general purpose computing: embedded computing options. Well, you are correct. Apple, like many computer manufacturers and chip makers, does not compete in the embedded space. Seems like a curious thing to point out since nobody was talking about it and nobody was under any illusions that competes there but hey, you're right. Can I play too? Apple does not compete in the toaster oven market. Apple does not compete in the inertial guidance systems market for cruise missiles. Apple does not manufacture sneakers. Look at me, being correct over here.
airstrike 3y ago
> there's real Office for Mac which sucks balls, if I may say so, as a self-appointed Office expert
steve1977 3y ago
There’s been a real Office for Mac for multiple decades
- rrdharan 3y ago
  Yes we all remember the Bill Gates hovering over Jobs event and the investment announcement and confirmation of Office for OS X. I think what the parent was referring to though is performance of macOS Office was trash until like Office 2016 or maybe Office 2019 (with multiple earlier hiccups along the way e.g. the delay on the x86 port etc.).
caeril 3y ago
> Its a developer darling While this is undoubtedly true, I still don't comprehend why. The development workflow on linux is an order of magnitude better than on OSX. Package management is built into the distro, the directory structure is sane, LUKS is (probably) less likely to be backdoored by the NSA than FileVault, you can use keyboard-centric window managers, tiling window managers, etc, far more of the system is available/configurable via scripting or terminal, you don't get grey screens of death regularly, it doesn't send tons of telemetry back to the mothership, and you don't have to reset the PRAM and SMC every goddamn week just to get the thing to boot. OSX is probably only a "good" comparative developer experience if you're forced to use XCode for something. Otherwise, it's a disaster.
- Jensson 3y ago
  > While this is undoubtedly true, I still don't comprehend why. If you want to make ios apps you need an Apple computer. Then people get used to it and like most people they will say they prefer whatever they are used to.
- alephnan 3y ago
  > The development workflow on linux is an order of magnitude better than on OSX. I guess your workflow doesn’t include getting Linux to work. As in, if you run into an issue, you’re somewhat on your own because of your unique Linux setup. Maybe except if you’re on Ubuntu or something. On Mac, you can more easily Google search for people with similar environment settings who failed building dependencies in the same way
  - kaashif 3y ago
    > As in, if you run into an issue, you’re somewhat on your own because of your unique Linux setup. Maybe except if you’re on Ubuntu or something. But uhh, I do just use Ubuntu? I haven't even changed the wallpaper. Everything works, nothing has broken in years. Surely Linux doesn't have to mean some kind of special snowflake Gentoo setup.
  - e-brake 3y ago
    If you are spending time getting it to work, I'm not sure that's a bad thing. It makes you a better developer!
d3w4s9 3y ago
developers are a very small group among "enterprise" customers. Ever seen a non-software company? Or maybe just look at what HR or sales people at your company use. More likely it's Windows rather than Mac.
- wiseowise 3y ago
  > Or maybe just look at what HR or sales people at your company use. MacBook Air.
- DeathArrow 3y ago
  >developers are a very small group among "enterprise" customers I am a developer. And for the last three workplaces we used Windows laptops, even if we targeted Kubernetes\Linux. Some business people had Macs, though.
  - ExoticPearTree 3y ago
    Out of curiosity: were you working in startups or enterprise/outsourcing companies in the previous jobs where they gave you Windows laptops?
    - DeathArrow 3y ago
      No startups, no outsourcing, software companies with their own products.
      - ExoticPearTree 3y ago
        Thanks for the answer. I've seen this at companies that started in the 90s or earlier. Newer ones are mostly Macs.

amelius 3y ago

Being used in != designed for Industry applications are calling for general purpose computing. Yet Apple only delivers products and services aimed at end consumers.

kube-system 3y ago
iPhones, iPads, and Macs are general purpose computers, by any commonly accepted definition. > Apple only delivers products and services aimed at end consumers. That is categorically untrue e.g https://www.apple.com/business/ https://www.apple.com/business/
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
jbverschoor 3y ago
Tbh, Intel hasn’t been designed for anything. It’s an organically grown isa, based on legacy and monopolist market share
- amelius 3y ago
  Maybe not being designed for anything is better than being designed for a specific audience.
JohnBooty 3y ago
Can you list some of the "general purpose computing" tasks used by "businesses" for which Macs aren't suitable? I mean, they're certainly not the price leaders, but you seem to be saying that Macs are downright unsuited to things "businesses" do.
- amelius 3y ago
  Imagine you're a car manufacturer. You are looking for a fast single-board computer with fast GPU for your FSD capabilities (say). The Apple Mini might fit the bill. How are you going to do this without rebranding everything about the Mini? You want the car to start up without the Apple logo on the screen, nor the Apple startup chime. Nor do you want system update notifications. Basically you want to remove the entire OS. Replace car manufacturer by medical equipment manufacturer, etc.
  - duskwuff 3y ago
    None of what you're describing is "general-purpose computing".
    - amelius 3y ago
      It is general purpose computing from the perspective that a client company can build anything they want with it. Which is not true for Apple products. They are end user products aimed at the end consumer.
      - zztop44 3y ago
        Right, but increasingly many of those “end users” are large businesses.
      - ExoticPearTree 3y ago
        You are very wrong about this statement. You can't take a Dell/HP/Thinkpad laptop and transform it in the car multimedia device. You are confusing computer parts with devices. Yes, it is true Apple won't sell you a CPU to put it on the motherboard of your choosing, but it is also true they don't operate in this market.
  - JohnBooty 3y ago
    Feels like you really moved the goalposts a few times there within the same thread. Bit of a wild ride. First, you were talking about desktop users: 80% of worldwide desktop users are business users. Then you moved on to: general purpose computing Which could mean a lot of things, but based on the context -- a thread about the latest chips that Intel has created for the desktop/notebook market -- it sure seemed like we were talking about that. Now you've focused on a subset of general purpose computing: embedded computing options. Well, you are correct. Apple, like many computer manufacturers and chip makers, does not compete in the embedded space. Seems like a curious thing to point out since nobody was talking about it and nobody was under any illusions that competes there but hey, you're right. Can I play too? Apple does not compete in the toaster oven market. Apple does not compete in the inertial guidance systems market for cruise missiles. Apple does not manufacture sneakers. Look at me, being correct over here.

airstrike 3y ago

> there's real Office for Mac which sucks balls, if I may say so, as a self-appointed Office expert

steve1977 3y ago

There’s been a real Office for Mac for multiple decades

rrdharan 3y ago
Yes we all remember the Bill Gates hovering over Jobs event and the investment announcement and confirmation of Office for OS X. I think what the parent was referring to though is performance of macOS Office was trash until like Office 2016 or maybe Office 2019 (with multiple earlier hiccups along the way e.g. the delay on the x86 port etc.).

caeril 3y ago

> Its a developer darling While this is undoubtedly true, I still don't comprehend why. The development workflow on linux is an order of magnitude better than on OSX. Package management is built into the distro, the directory structure is sane, LUKS is (probably) less likely to be backdoored by the NSA than FileVault, you can use keyboard-centric window managers, tiling window managers, etc, far more of the system is available/configurable via scripting or terminal, you don't get grey screens of death regularly, it doesn't send tons of telemetry back to the mothership, and you don't have to reset the PRAM and SMC every goddamn week just to get the thing to boot. OSX is probably only a "good" comparative developer experience if you're forced to use XCode for something. Otherwise, it's a disaster.

Jensson 3y ago
> While this is undoubtedly true, I still don't comprehend why. If you want to make ios apps you need an Apple computer. Then people get used to it and like most people they will say they prefer whatever they are used to.
alephnan 3y ago
> The development workflow on linux is an order of magnitude better than on OSX. I guess your workflow doesn’t include getting Linux to work. As in, if you run into an issue, you’re somewhat on your own because of your unique Linux setup. Maybe except if you’re on Ubuntu or something. On Mac, you can more easily Google search for people with similar environment settings who failed building dependencies in the same way
- kaashif 3y ago
  > As in, if you run into an issue, you’re somewhat on your own because of your unique Linux setup. Maybe except if you’re on Ubuntu or something. But uhh, I do just use Ubuntu? I haven't even changed the wallpaper. Everything works, nothing has broken in years. Surely Linux doesn't have to mean some kind of special snowflake Gentoo setup.
- e-brake 3y ago
  If you are spending time getting it to work, I'm not sure that's a bad thing. It makes you a better developer!

d3w4s9 3y ago

developers are a very small group among "enterprise" customers. Ever seen a non-software company? Or maybe just look at what HR or sales people at your company use. More likely it's Windows rather than Mac.

wiseowise 3y ago
> Or maybe just look at what HR or sales people at your company use. MacBook Air.
DeathArrow 3y ago
>developers are a very small group among "enterprise" customers I am a developer. And for the last three workplaces we used Windows laptops, even if we targeted Kubernetes\Linux. Some business people had Macs, though.
- ExoticPearTree 3y ago
  Out of curiosity: were you working in startups or enterprise/outsourcing companies in the previous jobs where they gave you Windows laptops?
  - DeathArrow 3y ago
    No startups, no outsourcing, software companies with their own products.
    - ExoticPearTree 3y ago
      Thanks for the answer. I've seen this at companies that started in the 90s or earlier. Newer ones are mostly Macs.