4 ms·

It's curious how these problems are highly correlated with the police doing questionable shit.

Aachen 3y ago
Is that an assumption, or based on any particular data set or even just a few data points you've anecdotally read about? The article doesn't mention this. It finds some cases where footage is (allegedly) unavailable, but does not look into how often footage is unavailable when nobody cares about it. If you think the cops are corrupt and delete footage of their own wrongdoing, that would need some backing up to be believable for me. Maybe in low-income/low-justice countries that's an assumption one can make, but not where I live at least.
- sonicanatidae 3y ago
  You can google for 2 mins and find many examples of hardware mysteriously failing while an officer was violating someone's rights. You can also find many instances of the video being magically deleted..aw shucks. Are there exceptions, like you mentioned? Sure. Are there many, many instances of that being bullshit? Sure.
  - amelius 3y ago
    It's probably more likely that people complain publicly about failed hardware if the hardware indeed failed. If you search for "hardware was working fine", yes, you probably won't find much, because that's not something people complain about.
    - sonicanatidae 3y ago
      Who's talking about complaints/feedback? I'm talking about numerous court cases, where bodycam footage was magically unavailable, when all of the circumstantial evidence pointed to crimes committed. I'm not after hunting all cops, or any of that horse shit. I'm referring to accountability beyond the current 6 week paid vacation, qualified immunity slapped on pretty much everything, being able to simply quit a job after committing literal crimes and get a job in an adjacent city doing the same thing, and stupid -isms, like "Yeah, that guy died not because we choked him until he couldn't breathe, but because of "excited delirium".
  - Aachen 3y ago
    > Are there exceptions [where it's truly accidental] > Are there many, many instances of that being bullshit? Sure. If you're trying to be fair by including the former sentence, then that should also include a "many, many" before "exceptions" unless you have the data I was asking after. As it stands, this adds no further information > You can google for 2 mins and find many examples of hardware mysteriously failing while an officer was violating someone's rights. If you think the cops are so bad, what about the criminals? I'd also claim the cop was violating my rights if I did something wrong and it's my word against theirs. How are you ever going to know what happened there? You can assume the cop was corrupt and the citizen innocent in all those cases, but if it were knowable then the citizen would have brought it to court rather than to the media, so I'm assuming it's unknowable who was right in most of those cases There has to be a fraction of cases where their rights were not being violated as claimed and footage is still unavailable. Whether that is 1/10 or 9/10, neither of us apparently has the information to make such a claim, but you're making extraordinary assumptions without extraordinary evidence
    - phpisthebest 3y ago
      >>How are you ever going to know what happened there? if only there was a recording device to record what actually happened.... >>You can assume the cop was corrupt and the citizen innocent in all those cases, yes that is exactly how it should work, that is how the system is setup to work. We have some how flipped that in recent years. At all times you should assume the government is abusing you, unless they can prove they are not. No video, I side with the people not the government >>There has to be a fraction of cases where their rights were not being violated as claimed and footage is still unavailable. Whether that is 1/10 or 9/10 It would be an error rate far far far far far less than that, and when you factor in most calls have more than one officers, plus patrol cars that have their own recording devices, plus citizen witnesses, plus business surveillance I think we get to such an unlikely circumstance to be statically impossible
    - sonicanatidae 3y ago
      A preponderance of these missing videos happen when officers are violating rights. The sentences were written as intended. The difference between cops and criminals is criminals aren't public servants, granted powers beyond the norm, so they can do their jobs. That being a literal fact, yes.. they are held to a higher standard or should be. You're arguing a false equivalence. As far as knowing "what happened there", that's literally the point of bodycams. There is a fraction of the cases where someone's rights weren't violated. A fraction, a lesser amount, a smaller subset, a number lower in value, etc. etc. And you apparently didn't even try to look at the web, so...ok!
bratbag 3y ago
Or are you just more likely to notice the overlap?

Is that an assumption, or based on any particular data set or even just a few data points you've anecdotally read about? The article doesn't mention this. It finds some cases where footage is (allegedly) unavailable, but does not look into how often footage is unavailable when nobody cares about it. If you think the cops are corrupt and delete footage of their own wrongdoing, that would need some backing up to be believable for me. Maybe in low-income/low-justice countries that's an assumption one can make, but not where I live at least.

sonicanatidae 3y ago
You can google for 2 mins and find many examples of hardware mysteriously failing while an officer was violating someone's rights. You can also find many instances of the video being magically deleted..aw shucks. Are there exceptions, like you mentioned? Sure. Are there many, many instances of that being bullshit? Sure.
- amelius 3y ago
  It's probably more likely that people complain publicly about failed hardware if the hardware indeed failed. If you search for "hardware was working fine", yes, you probably won't find much, because that's not something people complain about.
  - sonicanatidae 3y ago
    Who's talking about complaints/feedback? I'm talking about numerous court cases, where bodycam footage was magically unavailable, when all of the circumstantial evidence pointed to crimes committed. I'm not after hunting all cops, or any of that horse shit. I'm referring to accountability beyond the current 6 week paid vacation, qualified immunity slapped on pretty much everything, being able to simply quit a job after committing literal crimes and get a job in an adjacent city doing the same thing, and stupid -isms, like "Yeah, that guy died not because we choked him until he couldn't breathe, but because of "excited delirium".
- Aachen 3y ago
  > Are there exceptions [where it's truly accidental] > Are there many, many instances of that being bullshit? Sure. If you're trying to be fair by including the former sentence, then that should also include a "many, many" before "exceptions" unless you have the data I was asking after. As it stands, this adds no further information > You can google for 2 mins and find many examples of hardware mysteriously failing while an officer was violating someone's rights. If you think the cops are so bad, what about the criminals? I'd also claim the cop was violating my rights if I did something wrong and it's my word against theirs. How are you ever going to know what happened there? You can assume the cop was corrupt and the citizen innocent in all those cases, but if it were knowable then the citizen would have brought it to court rather than to the media, so I'm assuming it's unknowable who was right in most of those cases There has to be a fraction of cases where their rights were not being violated as claimed and footage is still unavailable. Whether that is 1/10 or 9/10, neither of us apparently has the information to make such a claim, but you're making extraordinary assumptions without extraordinary evidence
  - phpisthebest 3y ago
    >>How are you ever going to know what happened there? if only there was a recording device to record what actually happened.... >>You can assume the cop was corrupt and the citizen innocent in all those cases, yes that is exactly how it should work, that is how the system is setup to work. We have some how flipped that in recent years. At all times you should assume the government is abusing you, unless they can prove they are not. No video, I side with the people not the government >>There has to be a fraction of cases where their rights were not being violated as claimed and footage is still unavailable. Whether that is 1/10 or 9/10 It would be an error rate far far far far far less than that, and when you factor in most calls have more than one officers, plus patrol cars that have their own recording devices, plus citizen witnesses, plus business surveillance I think we get to such an unlikely circumstance to be statically impossible
  - sonicanatidae 3y ago
    A preponderance of these missing videos happen when officers are violating rights. The sentences were written as intended. The difference between cops and criminals is criminals aren't public servants, granted powers beyond the norm, so they can do their jobs. That being a literal fact, yes.. they are held to a higher standard or should be. You're arguing a false equivalence. As far as knowing "what happened there", that's literally the point of bodycams. There is a fraction of the cases where someone's rights weren't violated. A fraction, a lesser amount, a smaller subset, a number lower in value, etc. etc. And you apparently didn't even try to look at the web, so...ok!

bratbag 3y ago

Or are you just more likely to notice the overlap?