5 ms·

This story reminds me that education is a privilege and I'm probably not enjoying it as much as I should.

duxup 3y ago
I was a horrible college student when I was younger. For a variety of reasons. I quit school, got lucky, and fell into a good tech career. Many many years later after age 40 I was laid off, wanted a new career path / job, I took a few classes and eventually a bootcamp and changed careers. I was really nervous as far as how it would all play out knowing how terrible I was previously. It was completely different. The idea that I would go into a room each day and someone would drop some knowledge on me was thrilling. A few other older students like me felt the same way. We were always up front if possible, active, it was a JOY to go to class each day. Meanwhile I was surrounded by younger folks who reminded me of me as far as being perfectly capable, but low enthusiasm, effort, attention and interest level. Education, and youth is sometimes wasted on the young. I only wish I could have gone back to school more. I go to the local university now and then. Despite all the challenges, those folks don't seem to know how good they have it, but I can't judge, neither did I.
- mewpmewp2 3y ago
  Yeah, it's weird how I didn't care about school at all when I was younger, but now I feel like it would be absolutely amazing to be able to learn all of this as it is. I think it's mainly though because I've experienced more of "actual life" and trying to survive on my own so all of that speaks more to me. Otherwise it seems like it's clueless theory I am forced to learn, but now I can relate my own life's experience with it.
- WalterBright 3y ago
  A friend of mine dropped out of Caltech due to bad grades. I ran into him a decade later, and he said he'd recently graduated from Caltech, having gone back and gotten A's. I asked him what changed, did you get smarter? He laughed, and said no, this time I was willing to work.
  - ldc_or_dmd 3y ago
    Did he have to reapply? Acceptance rates have gone pretty steadily down at most worthwhile colleges since the 1970s. It would be surprising if a candidate got more attractive to a school as time went on. I'm kind of curious about the process of applying to Caltech overall, as someone who didn't have the opportunity to apply to anywhere at 18, but would very much like to when I get the chance. If a person wants to get into an elite university like it or MIT, what should they optimize for? I've known people with near-perfect SAT scores that didn't get into either. Is it mostly luck-based, after what few obvious things you can control? Sorry, I know this is probably the most frequently asked question you get any time you bring up your alma mater. Thanks for making D, by the way!
    - WalterBright 3y ago
      He did not have to reapply. Caltech's stance is once you're admitted, you are welcome to come back and keep trying. I know one who came back multiple times. Your credits don't expire, either, like they do other places. It's one of the great things about Caltech. The administration was just made up of nice people. I can only speak for the process that was in place when I applied back in the 70s. I sent them a letter asking for an application, which they sent to me. I filled it out, and sent it in with a check for the application fee. Nobody helped me with it, nor was I coached. They had some specific requirements, like you had to graduate from high school, but I knew one person they waived that for. What they looked for was a triad: 1. high school success 2. high SAT scores 3. evidence you're a highly motivated person You had to have all three. And it worked for Caltech - being around smart people can be fun, being around motivated people can be fun, being around smart and motivated people means you're going to have more fun than you ever thought possible. Caltech wasn't a place where you talked about football. If you wanted to have Carl Sagan drop by the dorm and talk about silicon giraffes, that was what was fun. If your room was next to Hal Finney's, that was fun. If a couple doors down was a guy who designed and built a working computer out of NAND gates, that was fun. If the guy 4 doors down built a powerful amplifier, and set up a giant set of speakers at the nodes of the hall and hooked it to a signal generator to emit sound below the hearing range, but was at the resonant frequency of the building, so it soon would start to go whump whump whump ... hahaha I was never bored for 4 years. Never. I'd be a bit careful about optimizing for it. You really have to want to go there, and for the people who thrive there, it just is who they are. Caltech just wanted to be sure that the ones they admitted would be a natural fit, not an optimized fit. If you're not a natural fit, you won't be happy there, and will drop out. Nobody wants that. I was told years later that they were skeptical about my application, and so sent someone out to interview me. He couldn't get a word in edgewise as I went off on all the projects I was working on, showed him diagrams of them, etc. He told the committee he thought I was worth taking a chance on. I was rejected by MIT, Harvard, and Stanford, despite being legacy for MIT and Harvard. > Thanks for making D, by the way! You're welcome! Working on D is a great pleasure of mine. The way Caltech was run is how I've tried to run the D Language Foundation. In many ways the DLF community is our very own Caltech :-)
- Aeolun 3y ago
  I think the best part about going to university while young was not yet having to worry about how to support myself (and my family). I guess the lesser incentives mean it’s easier to ignore anything said as well though. Though to be fair “graduate in 5 years or you have to pay it all back” (imposed by the government) was a fairly powerful motivator.
- gerdesj 3y ago
  The thing about experience and hindsight are clearly stated within their names. You don't accumulate either without being time served. You may have some times where you actually decided to "carpe diem" and when you look back on those days, you will realise you made the best of things. As you get older, hopefully those positive experiences gradually accumulate, rather than being drowned out by negative experiences, which sadly make themselves up. Sadly, bits tend to fall off or sag as we get older. It is the way of things. However, with luck your mind stays reasonably sharp for longer than the rest of you!
- wegfawefgawefg 3y ago
  Having been young more recently I can help you remember what you may have forgotten. Being young comes with a lot of stressors that take away from your agency, and your ability to see any positive outcome from effort. Whether that is relentless potential demand from a parent, inability to choose what to eat or do, or study, where to go, no car, no money, mate competition, etc. I found education to be very enjoyable in elementary school, then horrible in my teens, but very enjoyable in my early 20s when i had a bank account with even just 10k in it. Teachers treated me like shit in middle school by default, and in high school it was definitely harrassment. The material was often not rich enough to support the duration I was required to sit and stare at it. I was required to ask permission to urinate. The teachers may not have been intelligent enough to understand a persuasive argument in an essay. Math was the only consistently good outlier. In university the worse a teacher ever was to me was bad or ambivalent, but the educational resources were so deep personal pursuit felt like it had infinite potential. Im assuming at 40 years old these things have all been forgotten. Im sure the same is happening to me.
- gwbas1c 3y ago
  I think the biggest difference is feeling like you're in control of your life: Are you in college because someone told you to go, or did you go voluntarily? I really wanted a break halfway through college, so I went on co-op. This forced me to go back (to college at the end of the co-op), and I never lost my status as a student (during the co-op). But, for a little more than 6 months, I was an independent adult, working, in charge of my life, at a place where I wanted to be. School was so much easier when I went back.
VoodooJuJu 3y ago
Part of the reason Western countries are so successful is precisely because we don't treat it as a privilege, but as a given. So appreciate it as a privilege where it's not a given, like in shithole countries, but please do treat it as something that should be a given, that's what separates shitholes from beacons of light and truth, i.e. the West.
credit_guy 3y ago
> is a privilege Why are you watering down the word "privilege"? Historically privilege was an exemption from taxes due to the fact that one of your ancestors helped some king in a war. How exactly is education a privilege? At least in the US, everyone has access to public education. My kids go to public school, and while I can't say their education is perfect, it's not that bad either. You could probably say that private education is a privilege, but education in general? Why?
- dev_slash_null 3y ago
  > How exactly is education a privilege? At least in the US, everyone has access to public education. The article is literally about life in North Korea...
  - credit_guy 3y ago
    Should we then conclude that freedom of speech is a privilege because people in North Korea don’t have it?
    - morbicer 3y ago
      Yes it is if the context is global. Oxford dictionary: privilege - a special right or advantage that a particular person or group of people has 1st example there: Education should be a universal right and not a privilege. Globally, it's a privilege. Worldwide many girls can not get it. Or poor. Even clean water is a privilege on a global scale. Perhaps in USA as well, ehm see Flint. Language evolves. It's 21st century, privilege isn't about feudal taxes anymore. Queue meant tail and gay happy.
      - credit_guy 3y ago
        There's a danger when playing with words like this. Privilege is bad. It's something we, as society, should strive to eliminate. When you say education is a privilege, what is the message there? I understand that the OP, and you, are trying to convey a message of this type: I should be thankful that I get X, not everyone in the world gets X, and I will try to remind myself that X should not be taken for granted. Where X is education, but it can also be clean water, or maybe just the right to live, or the right to not go to a reeducation camp if you criticize the "dear leader". I subscribe to that type of thinking. I just don't think that using the word "privilege" is the best way to express this idea.

I was a horrible college student when I was younger. For a variety of reasons. I quit school, got lucky, and fell into a good tech career. Many many years later after age 40 I was laid off, wanted a new career path / job, I took a few classes and eventually a bootcamp and changed careers. I was really nervous as far as how it would all play out knowing how terrible I was previously. It was completely different. The idea that I would go into a room each day and someone would drop some knowledge on me was thrilling. A few other older students like me felt the same way. We were always up front if possible, active, it was a JOY to go to class each day. Meanwhile I was surrounded by younger folks who reminded me of me as far as being perfectly capable, but low enthusiasm, effort, attention and interest level. Education, and youth is sometimes wasted on the young. I only wish I could have gone back to school more. I go to the local university now and then. Despite all the challenges, those folks don't seem to know how good they have it, but I can't judge, neither did I.

mewpmewp2 3y ago
Yeah, it's weird how I didn't care about school at all when I was younger, but now I feel like it would be absolutely amazing to be able to learn all of this as it is. I think it's mainly though because I've experienced more of "actual life" and trying to survive on my own so all of that speaks more to me. Otherwise it seems like it's clueless theory I am forced to learn, but now I can relate my own life's experience with it.
WalterBright 3y ago
A friend of mine dropped out of Caltech due to bad grades. I ran into him a decade later, and he said he'd recently graduated from Caltech, having gone back and gotten A's. I asked him what changed, did you get smarter? He laughed, and said no, this time I was willing to work.
- ldc_or_dmd 3y ago
  Did he have to reapply? Acceptance rates have gone pretty steadily down at most worthwhile colleges since the 1970s. It would be surprising if a candidate got more attractive to a school as time went on. I'm kind of curious about the process of applying to Caltech overall, as someone who didn't have the opportunity to apply to anywhere at 18, but would very much like to when I get the chance. If a person wants to get into an elite university like it or MIT, what should they optimize for? I've known people with near-perfect SAT scores that didn't get into either. Is it mostly luck-based, after what few obvious things you can control? Sorry, I know this is probably the most frequently asked question you get any time you bring up your alma mater. Thanks for making D, by the way!
  - WalterBright 3y ago
    He did not have to reapply. Caltech's stance is once you're admitted, you are welcome to come back and keep trying. I know one who came back multiple times. Your credits don't expire, either, like they do other places. It's one of the great things about Caltech. The administration was just made up of nice people. I can only speak for the process that was in place when I applied back in the 70s. I sent them a letter asking for an application, which they sent to me. I filled it out, and sent it in with a check for the application fee. Nobody helped me with it, nor was I coached. They had some specific requirements, like you had to graduate from high school, but I knew one person they waived that for. What they looked for was a triad: 1. high school success 2. high SAT scores 3. evidence you're a highly motivated person You had to have all three. And it worked for Caltech - being around smart people can be fun, being around motivated people can be fun, being around smart and motivated people means you're going to have more fun than you ever thought possible. Caltech wasn't a place where you talked about football. If you wanted to have Carl Sagan drop by the dorm and talk about silicon giraffes, that was what was fun. If your room was next to Hal Finney's, that was fun. If a couple doors down was a guy who designed and built a working computer out of NAND gates, that was fun. If the guy 4 doors down built a powerful amplifier, and set up a giant set of speakers at the nodes of the hall and hooked it to a signal generator to emit sound below the hearing range, but was at the resonant frequency of the building, so it soon would start to go whump whump whump ... hahaha I was never bored for 4 years. Never. I'd be a bit careful about optimizing for it. You really have to want to go there, and for the people who thrive there, it just is who they are. Caltech just wanted to be sure that the ones they admitted would be a natural fit, not an optimized fit. If you're not a natural fit, you won't be happy there, and will drop out. Nobody wants that. I was told years later that they were skeptical about my application, and so sent someone out to interview me. He couldn't get a word in edgewise as I went off on all the projects I was working on, showed him diagrams of them, etc. He told the committee he thought I was worth taking a chance on. I was rejected by MIT, Harvard, and Stanford, despite being legacy for MIT and Harvard. > Thanks for making D, by the way! You're welcome! Working on D is a great pleasure of mine. The way Caltech was run is how I've tried to run the D Language Foundation. In many ways the DLF community is our very own Caltech :-)
Aeolun 3y ago
I think the best part about going to university while young was not yet having to worry about how to support myself (and my family). I guess the lesser incentives mean it’s easier to ignore anything said as well though. Though to be fair “graduate in 5 years or you have to pay it all back” (imposed by the government) was a fairly powerful motivator.
gerdesj 3y ago
The thing about experience and hindsight are clearly stated within their names. You don't accumulate either without being time served. You may have some times where you actually decided to "carpe diem" and when you look back on those days, you will realise you made the best of things. As you get older, hopefully those positive experiences gradually accumulate, rather than being drowned out by negative experiences, which sadly make themselves up. Sadly, bits tend to fall off or sag as we get older. It is the way of things. However, with luck your mind stays reasonably sharp for longer than the rest of you!
wegfawefgawefg 3y ago
Having been young more recently I can help you remember what you may have forgotten. Being young comes with a lot of stressors that take away from your agency, and your ability to see any positive outcome from effort. Whether that is relentless potential demand from a parent, inability to choose what to eat or do, or study, where to go, no car, no money, mate competition, etc. I found education to be very enjoyable in elementary school, then horrible in my teens, but very enjoyable in my early 20s when i had a bank account with even just 10k in it. Teachers treated me like shit in middle school by default, and in high school it was definitely harrassment. The material was often not rich enough to support the duration I was required to sit and stare at it. I was required to ask permission to urinate. The teachers may not have been intelligent enough to understand a persuasive argument in an essay. Math was the only consistently good outlier. In university the worse a teacher ever was to me was bad or ambivalent, but the educational resources were so deep personal pursuit felt like it had infinite potential. Im assuming at 40 years old these things have all been forgotten. Im sure the same is happening to me.
gwbas1c 3y ago
I think the biggest difference is feeling like you're in control of your life: Are you in college because someone told you to go, or did you go voluntarily? I really wanted a break halfway through college, so I went on co-op. This forced me to go back (to college at the end of the co-op), and I never lost my status as a student (during the co-op). But, for a little more than 6 months, I was an independent adult, working, in charge of my life, at a place where I wanted to be. School was so much easier when I went back.

VoodooJuJu 3y ago

Part of the reason Western countries are so successful is precisely because we don't treat it as a privilege, but as a given. So appreciate it as a privilege where it's not a given, like in shithole countries, but please do treat it as something that should be a given, that's what separates shitholes from beacons of light and truth, i.e. the West.

credit_guy 3y ago

> is a privilege Why are you watering down the word "privilege"? Historically privilege was an exemption from taxes due to the fact that one of your ancestors helped some king in a war. How exactly is education a privilege? At least in the US, everyone has access to public education. My kids go to public school, and while I can't say their education is perfect, it's not that bad either. You could probably say that private education is a privilege, but education in general? Why?

dev_slash_null 3y ago
> How exactly is education a privilege? At least in the US, everyone has access to public education. The article is literally about life in North Korea...
- credit_guy 3y ago
  Should we then conclude that freedom of speech is a privilege because people in North Korea don’t have it?
  - morbicer 3y ago
    Yes it is if the context is global. Oxford dictionary: privilege - a special right or advantage that a particular person or group of people has 1st example there: Education should be a universal right and not a privilege. Globally, it's a privilege. Worldwide many girls can not get it. Or poor. Even clean water is a privilege on a global scale. Perhaps in USA as well, ehm see Flint. Language evolves. It's 21st century, privilege isn't about feudal taxes anymore. Queue meant tail and gay happy.
    - credit_guy 3y ago
      There's a danger when playing with words like this. Privilege is bad. It's something we, as society, should strive to eliminate. When you say education is a privilege, what is the message there? I understand that the OP, and you, are trying to convey a message of this type: I should be thankful that I get X, not everyone in the world gets X, and I will try to remind myself that X should not be taken for granted. Where X is education, but it can also be clean water, or maybe just the right to live, or the right to not go to a reeducation camp if you criticize the "dear leader". I subscribe to that type of thinking. I just don't think that using the word "privilege" is the best way to express this idea.