8 ms·

I guess I'm a bit of a NIMBY like most Santa Cruzians (well ex-) but idk Santa Cruz is just an idyllic beach town. That's part of the charm and the identity. I

by mcntsh 3y ago

I guess I'm a bit of a NIMBY like most Santa Cruzians (well ex-) but idk Santa Cruz is just an idyllic beach town. That's part of the charm and the identity. I don't think everywhere needs to metropolize and I'm not convinced doing so will even have an effect on housing costs. I also realize this is an incredibly unpopular opinion. I do think the city needs housing, for sure, but high rises? Baby steps maybe?

JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> idk Santa Cruz is just an idyllic beach town When did you last go? I remember when it was an idyllic beach town. I went a few months ago--it's a lot of Tenderloin south. Preserving a low-density community is exorbitantly expensive. Try it without cash and you overshoot into slum.
- rhuru 3y ago
  Santa Cruz is an ultra left town, no matter the policies it will be run over by cultural enrichers stealing from stores, pooping on street and carjacking.
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    The most violent cities in America tend to vote red [1]. There isn't a simple partisan lens to the problem. (Though extremism is a common thread.) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_crime_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_b...
    - black6 3y ago
      I'm looking at that list and I don't see the same thing. The top ten cities by violent crime rate are: St. Louis, Detroit, Baltimore, Memphis, KCMO, Milwaukee, Cleveland, Stockton, ABQ, and Indianapolis.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
notatoad 3y ago
>I don't think everywhere needs to metropolize the problem is that the NIMBYs exist everywhere, and housing has to get built somewhere. if a municipality wants to create a district covering some portion of their area that maintains the idyllic beach town vibe, that doesn't cause a problem so long as they're also willing to create a district where building houses actually is allowed. but as long as every single neighbourhood says it's charm and identity is based on having no new housing built, where are people supposed to live?
- mcntsh 3y ago
  It's a good point but let's remember that we're talking about a town of 60,000 people.
  - dontreact 3y ago
    You have to remember that Santa Cruz is very near the Bay Area and in California. A lot more than 60,000 people want to live there many have been forced out by costs. What you’re saying really amounts to saying you want to stop immigration into your town. While I can understand the sentiment, the problem is that people feel this way in so many places that it is creating a crisis of housing affordability.
    - mcntsh 3y ago
      Santa Cruz may be very "near" the Bay Area geographically but it's not practically. Even if you worked in San Jose you're talking 1.5 hours of commute in good weather (I did that for years). The other closest city is Monterey which is further and is of course not what anyone might call an economic hub. Most of the people living in Santa Cruz owning homes are not commuting to the Bay to work. They made their money in tech and have retired to the beach.
      - dontreact 3y ago
        I know many many people who have moved to SC from the Bay Area. I mention the proximity because it’s relevant with regards to people becoming familiar and then desiring to move there (whether retired as you mentioned or working remotely), and not because it’s a commuter town.
crooked-v 3y ago
> I don't think everywhere needs to metropolize Under the current state of California's pretty massive housing shortage, one city refusing to build housing just increases the financial burden on everyone else, and on top of that almost every city has, for decades, actively refused to densify in a reasonable manner. That's why the state has started with city-by-city explicit housing goals (with San Francisco looking like it will be the first city to hit the point of 'or else' penalties pretty soon). > I'm not convinced doing so will even have an effect on housing costs It's extremely straightforward supply and demand. It will take a while to catch up, though, because the country as a whole is still millions of housing units in the hole from decades of under-building.
gregwebs 3y ago
Building high rises is the easiest path forward. Just need to control a block to put up a high rise and that does a lot. Alternatively it would be bull-dozing and developing existing natural scenery farther away with more infrastructure needs and traffic. If you wanted to instead make changes across a massive amount of existing housing to make them all a couple stories taller that would take a long time to work with all the land owners- would have been a good thing to start 10 years ago.
standardUser 3y ago
> Santa Cruz is just an idyllic beach town It's really not. It houses a massive university, it's commutable to Silicon Valley and has been influenced by those booms and busts, it's steeped in counterculture and radicalism, and it has long faced serious issues with drugs and homelessness that are much more akin to a big city than a beach town. I absolutely love Santa Cruz and I especially love the beach town aspects, but that's just one facet of the city and the surrounding area.
prismatix 3y ago
Genuinely curious: where do you propose they build more housing if not downtown? There isn't much usable land in Santa Cruz that's not already taken. The only reasonable place I can think of to build "high rises", without demolishing some sort of nature, is the West side where all the offices are.
- hrkfmud50k 3y ago
  How about Central Valley
brokensegue 3y ago
too many people want to live there so the options are 1) only the rich and lucky get to live there 2) build more housing 3) make the area less desirable 2 seems like the best option. Option 1 and 2 both could have the side-effect of causing 3.
toss_me_sc 3y ago
I don't think we really have a choice. If we don't build more housing, we'll just have more homeless. The scale at which we need to in order to clean up the river is much larger than I think most people realize
BobaFloutist 3y ago
I don't think "idyllic beach town" is compatible with "major university" and "proximity to Silicon Valley". There's plenty of other idyllic beach towns, but, unfortunately, this one can't stay this way.
- mcntsh 3y ago
  I invite you to go live in Santa Cruz for a year and let me know how close to Silicon Valley it is. We're not talking about Palo Alto or Saratoga here... you aren't in commuting distance to any jobs. You're going to wait in traffic for minimum 1.5 hours on mountain roads each way to get to/from work. If it rains or if there's a single car accident then your commute easily doubles. And that's if you work in San Jose... forget it if you're any further up the bay.
  - BobaFloutist 3y ago
    The commute is what it is because the people of the town have repeatedly voted to keep it that way. Edit: Actually, forget all that. You're inviting me to live in Santa Cruz for a year? Do you have a place? I might take you up on that, what a lovely offer.
  - jeffbee 3y ago
    Santa Cruz Metro operates the Hwy 17 Express 20 times a day, and there are commuter shuttles for Google, Facebook, and more.
    - dekhn 3y ago
      Sure, that (hwy 17 express) great if you want to go to Diridon in about 50 minutes if there's no traffic. The folks who took Santa Cruz commuter shuttles at Google seemed widely miserable.
      - jeffbee 3y ago
        I'm not recommending it, only pointing out that the OP is wildly wrong about travel patterns from Santa Cruz. Something like 15% of all employed people in Santa Cruz commute to work in Santa Clara County. https://labormarketinfo.edd.ca.gov/file/commute-maps/santacruz2022.pdf https://labormarketinfo.edd.ca.gov/file/commute-maps/santacr...

by mcntsh 3y ago

JumpCrisscross 3y ago

> idk Santa Cruz is just an idyllic beach town When did you last go? I remember when it was an idyllic beach town. I went a few months ago--it's a lot of Tenderloin south. Preserving a low-density community is exorbitantly expensive. Try it without cash and you overshoot into slum.

rhuru 3y ago
Santa Cruz is an ultra left town, no matter the policies it will be run over by cultural enrichers stealing from stores, pooping on street and carjacking.
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  The most violent cities in America tend to vote red [1]. There isn't a simple partisan lens to the problem. (Though extremism is a common thread.) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_crime_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_b...
  - black6 3y ago
    I'm looking at that list and I don't see the same thing. The top ten cities by violent crime rate are: St. Louis, Detroit, Baltimore, Memphis, KCMO, Milwaukee, Cleveland, Stockton, ABQ, and Indianapolis.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

notatoad 3y ago

>I don't think everywhere needs to metropolize the problem is that the NIMBYs exist everywhere, and housing has to get built somewhere. if a municipality wants to create a district covering some portion of their area that maintains the idyllic beach town vibe, that doesn't cause a problem so long as they're also willing to create a district where building houses actually is allowed. but as long as every single neighbourhood says it's charm and identity is based on having no new housing built, where are people supposed to live?

mcntsh 3y ago
It's a good point but let's remember that we're talking about a town of 60,000 people.
- dontreact 3y ago
  You have to remember that Santa Cruz is very near the Bay Area and in California. A lot more than 60,000 people want to live there many have been forced out by costs. What you’re saying really amounts to saying you want to stop immigration into your town. While I can understand the sentiment, the problem is that people feel this way in so many places that it is creating a crisis of housing affordability.
  - mcntsh 3y ago
    Santa Cruz may be very "near" the Bay Area geographically but it's not practically. Even if you worked in San Jose you're talking 1.5 hours of commute in good weather (I did that for years). The other closest city is Monterey which is further and is of course not what anyone might call an economic hub. Most of the people living in Santa Cruz owning homes are not commuting to the Bay to work. They made their money in tech and have retired to the beach.
    - dontreact 3y ago
      I know many many people who have moved to SC from the Bay Area. I mention the proximity because it’s relevant with regards to people becoming familiar and then desiring to move there (whether retired as you mentioned or working remotely), and not because it’s a commuter town.

crooked-v 3y ago

> I don't think everywhere needs to metropolize Under the current state of California's pretty massive housing shortage, one city refusing to build housing just increases the financial burden on everyone else, and on top of that almost every city has, for decades, actively refused to densify in a reasonable manner. That's why the state has started with city-by-city explicit housing goals (with San Francisco looking like it will be the first city to hit the point of 'or else' penalties pretty soon). > I'm not convinced doing so will even have an effect on housing costs It's extremely straightforward supply and demand. It will take a while to catch up, though, because the country as a whole is still millions of housing units in the hole from decades of under-building.

gregwebs 3y ago

Building high rises is the easiest path forward. Just need to control a block to put up a high rise and that does a lot. Alternatively it would be bull-dozing and developing existing natural scenery farther away with more infrastructure needs and traffic. If you wanted to instead make changes across a massive amount of existing housing to make them all a couple stories taller that would take a long time to work with all the land owners- would have been a good thing to start 10 years ago.

standardUser 3y ago

> Santa Cruz is just an idyllic beach town It's really not. It houses a massive university, it's commutable to Silicon Valley and has been influenced by those booms and busts, it's steeped in counterculture and radicalism, and it has long faced serious issues with drugs and homelessness that are much more akin to a big city than a beach town. I absolutely love Santa Cruz and I especially love the beach town aspects, but that's just one facet of the city and the surrounding area.

prismatix 3y ago

Genuinely curious: where do you propose they build more housing if not downtown? There isn't much usable land in Santa Cruz that's not already taken. The only reasonable place I can think of to build "high rises", without demolishing some sort of nature, is the West side where all the offices are.

hrkfmud50k 3y ago
How about Central Valley

brokensegue 3y ago

too many people want to live there so the options are 1) only the rich and lucky get to live there 2) build more housing 3) make the area less desirable 2 seems like the best option. Option 1 and 2 both could have the side-effect of causing 3.

toss_me_sc 3y ago

I don't think we really have a choice. If we don't build more housing, we'll just have more homeless. The scale at which we need to in order to clean up the river is much larger than I think most people realize

BobaFloutist 3y ago

I don't think "idyllic beach town" is compatible with "major university" and "proximity to Silicon Valley". There's plenty of other idyllic beach towns, but, unfortunately, this one can't stay this way.

mcntsh 3y ago
I invite you to go live in Santa Cruz for a year and let me know how close to Silicon Valley it is. We're not talking about Palo Alto or Saratoga here... you aren't in commuting distance to any jobs. You're going to wait in traffic for minimum 1.5 hours on mountain roads each way to get to/from work. If it rains or if there's a single car accident then your commute easily doubles. And that's if you work in San Jose... forget it if you're any further up the bay.
- BobaFloutist 3y ago
  The commute is what it is because the people of the town have repeatedly voted to keep it that way. Edit: Actually, forget all that. You're inviting me to live in Santa Cruz for a year? Do you have a place? I might take you up on that, what a lovely offer.
- jeffbee 3y ago
  Santa Cruz Metro operates the Hwy 17 Express 20 times a day, and there are commuter shuttles for Google, Facebook, and more.
  - dekhn 3y ago
    Sure, that (hwy 17 express) great if you want to go to Diridon in about 50 minutes if there's no traffic. The folks who took Santa Cruz commuter shuttles at Google seemed widely miserable.
    - jeffbee 3y ago
      I'm not recommending it, only pointing out that the OP is wildly wrong about travel patterns from Santa Cruz. Something like 15% of all employed people in Santa Cruz commute to work in Santa Clara County. https://labormarketinfo.edd.ca.gov/file/commute-maps/santacruz2022.pdf https://labormarketinfo.edd.ca.gov/file/commute-maps/santacr...